[Innova] From hype to horror-DON'T POST A GROOVE THREAD UNTIL YOU READ THIS!

[facesnorth]

I throw RH sidearm and LOVING the 175 champ groove. Also love the surge, maybe a little more even. But these 2 are definitely my longest, straightest, most consistent drivers. Not sure what I'm doing, I'm pretty new with this sport, but I love these discs and they are not very dissimilar in flight for me.

 

[DannyM]

I picked up a groove for a CTP a few months back. When I threw it it was way too overstable for me backhand, but too flippy for me forehand, however I left it in my bag, just for giggles. Well I had a shot that I needed a hard left, so I used the groove backhand. Nailed the line AND, got a skip when it landed, giving me extra D. So, started using it more and more backhand for those harder left turns, and for windier conditions where I needed stability. I've not thrown the boss, however, I am liking the groove now. I'm definately not known for my "long arm" but I am getting good distance with this disc, and it has a predictable hard left turn for me.

 

[solomon.trenton]

I throw all three of the discs you're talking about. Boss, Groove and especially the Surge. I don't know what is wrong with the disc classifications and ratings but I can agree with everything you're saying about the flight characteristics. I use a RHBH with these discs and the Groove falls way short. I can S the Boss all day. The Surge has a nice fade right for me at the end. I still haven't found a use for the Groove.

the groove is meant for people with slower arm speed that cant get the boss to fly for them.

 

[Marv Vega]

Check out other threads on Star/Champ/R-Pro. They seem to be three entirely different disks.

As for the groove, I assume you meant 175? I thought the groove could only be done from 165-175ish ?

Yeah, my mistake it's a 165G.

 

[kpc2004]

the groove is meant for people with slower arm speed that cant get the boss to fly for them.

this is true, you may not have to throw it as hard, but you still have to be able to throw it fast enough for it to fly how it was meant to.

 

[CwAlbino]

I got the extremely overstable versions of both of these, champions. Can't throw them for ****, me, or anybody I hand them to. A friend of mine throws his boss all the time and can turn it over, I handed him mine and it just fades fades fades....

So I tried an R-Pro Boss.... lol talk about understable. That thing is so damn flippy I can't even throw it.

 

[rikardob]

the groove is meant for people with slower arm speed that cant get the boss to fly for them.

I've been told just the opposite. Or that you need the strongest arm possible to be playing around with a Groove in the first place anyways. My normal power drive is around 320 but I can go a ways farther than that now. Sure I'm not bombing them 500 feet but I think it's respectable. I also have a friend with a cannon and he has to put everything he has into it throwing the Groove. Nothing like with my Boss or Surges.

 

[mavrick]

listen ive thrown the groove and the boss and they both have a level 13 speed for a reason. you have to throw some snap on the groove to get it to where you want it to go. i know that some grooves have felt differently. i mostly know this because ive bought at least 3 of them and 2 felt way different than the other one in flight. just go out and throw just the groove. i guarantee itll turn over. just throw more snap and anheizser if you cant turn it over right away and you'll get what your looking for. i get 400' out of mine when i crush out a nice "s".

 

[Neophyte]

Interesting conversation, I have always wondered about moving up to these faster drivers. My fastest driver is still the X-Cal and I am loving it. I figure that once I can get 400ft consistently with it I could move up. The Surge sounds like a good option, haven't played with anyone who uses one as of yet.

 

[NatiBuckeye]

Interesting conversation, I have always wondered about moving up to these faster drivers. My fastest driver is still the X-Cal and I am loving it. I figure that once I can get 400ft consistently with it I could move up. The Surge sounds like a good option, haven't played with anyone who uses one as of yet.

I would think if you can handle an Xcal you can easily control a surge. Im at the same stage and im uncertain about trying a boss even though many people I know its their go to disc.

Ive never felt there was a direct distance and speed equivelant. Maybe if you throw 400 you can control a boss? just a guess.

 

[tomjulio]

Interesting replies. My initial thought, and no offense to anyone here, is that most people who use the Groove and the Boss don't have enough power to make them fly correctly. Here's what's in my bag and observations(I am RHBH):

150 R pro Boss - super flippy with power. Incredible tailwind and hyzer flip disc. Useless in a head wind and very prone to grip lock.
166 Star Boss- Great disc for an extra distance hyzer shot. Thrown with a left to right wind this disc will glide forever.
172 Champ Boss- Power slam dunk hyzer disc. Huge fast S curves when thrown with anny. Damn near impossible to make roll over. Thrown best with a strong left to right wind.

166 Champ Groove- Thrown with a little bit of hyzer for a long extended hyzer shot. Thrown with a right to left wing this thing will glide forever. Thrown with a left to right wind may roll on you or glide way far right.
173 Champ Groove- See above but a faster version.

The Groove and Boss compliment each other well, especially in wind conditions. I rarely will throw them unless the wind dictates or I need a specialty curved shot. I watch others with less power use them and I see all the same observations as been posted.

Another thing is that both discs have a very distinguishable hyzer skip at the end due to their speed. I can spot both discs thrown by other players on the course by the way they land then take a fast skip of a harder surface.

 

[STSgoalie]

The boss will be more overstable than the groove. I also found the groove beats in pretty quick, and I now use it for my forehand anny's. Its all personal preference though, and also the run and color also make a difference.

 

[KzooKid]

I throw the FLX Surge and First Run ESP Surge and I hesitated for a while before falling for all the "Speed 13(innova)" and "Fastest disc in the universe(Discraft)" marketing but I finally subdued and bought a 172g Discraft Force ESP. Any good?? I've thrown it like 5 times, its too stiff right now for me to really get a great grip on it. Kinda domey but it was flatten out after a few months hopefully.

 

[hogleggbob]

This is how I am.

The guy in the field is off. You just need a strong arm. I find that weak arms have a very tough time getting it to do what it needs. The reason it is a high speed, is because it needs to be released at a high speed.

yeah you need to put some ass behind those discs to get em to do what they say they will do. the groove goes straighter alittle longer then fades out compared to the boss., which im my case starts turning as soon as you let it go... both are great discs

 

[tbird888]

The boss will be more overstable than the groove. I also found the groove beats in pretty quick, and I now use it for my forehand anny's. Its all personal preference though, and also the run and color also make a difference.

I've found the same. I got about two months out of my first run Groove before it got too unpredictable and lost its' place in my bag. A new one fixed that problem - expensive disc to throw.

I thought, after throwing the Groove, that it would become my go-to driver for big D. Then I picked up an ESP Surge after a tourney and find I'm reaching for it more than the Groove when I need a long drive - it's also more predictable months later. It does a lot better in headwinds for me and gives me more consistent results (my FLX Surge, however won't be thrown again until the winter, if ever).

As for the original question, the Groove felt really overstable (LHFH) for me until I finally put enough power into it. It isn't a longer Valkyrie as the ratings suggest but is definitely less stable than any Boss I've ever thrown.

 

[Lewis]

my FLX Surge, however won't be thrown again until the winter, if ever

Really? My FLX Surge has been working fine for me this summer in high humidity and temperatures way over 90 degrees.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Ive never felt there was a direct distance and speed equivelant. Maybe if you throw 400 you can control a boss? just a guess.

In reality, there isn't. It all depends on your arm speed. I heard a wonderful story while playing at La Mirada, that I think I have shared on here before. Two or three guys were out playing a round with one of the regulars who works for Innova. The guy who works for Innova had three Wraiths in his bag and no Bosses or Grooves. One of the other guys asked him why he didn't have the latest in technology from his own company and his response was, "I can throw the Wraiths further." Rumor has it they went to a field to test the theory out and sure enough, he could throw the Wraiths much further. The next day the guy that first asked about the Wraiths had three in his bag.

 

[KzooKid]

I like my FLX Surge too in the summer. I didnt think I would but I have a sweating problem so any extra grip is truly appreciable. Dont expect any skip out of them though.

 

[Maverick3324]

My brother and I have recently been experimenting with the Boss. Both of us consistently throw around 300', and initially we both found the Boss extremely hard to control as it is ridiculously overstable (more than Innova lets on IMHO.) We started messing around in a field and each found something that works (at least for us). I throw RHBH and when I throw the Boss, I throw it extremely anhyzer off to the right, and most of the time it follows an S curve and works back to the left and its overstable consistency. It isn't a huge upgrade but I have found myself throwing around 30' longer with it. My brother on the other hand throws RHFH and just puts everything he has into it with a lot of wrist snap. He is not real consistent with it yet, but when he gets it to fly right he has got up to the 390'-410' range. Neither of us have tried a Groove or a Surge, but I think it's all about finding a flight pattern that works for each particular disc and the way you release it.

 

[gvan]

I had my longest throw ever (417 feet) with an R-Pro Boss. It's very inconsistent though. I rarely carry it in my bag. Wraiths and Destroyers are a lot more consistent and therefore better for me.

I believe that a problem with throwing a Boss or Groove if you can't get it up to speed is that you will learn to throw the disc in a less than optimal fashion to get the distance. Working on technique with a slower speed disc might result in the same distance and eventually lead to being able to throw the Boss "correctly" with even better results.

It depends on one's ultimate goal, I guess. That's assuming what I said isn't poppycock.