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Full hitting

HyzerUniBomber

* Ace Member *
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,036
Location
Denver, CO
I know this has been talked about - but I wanted to try to put it into some plain english.

I've had a few break through moments lately that seem to be sticking.

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In the last couple field sessions, I was able to throw my Buzzz and Truth about 350-380' pretty consistently and had 2 shots that were just shy of 390' with Truths. All shots thrown about 12' off the ground.

The things that increased my distance from about 300' to 350'... I THINK are the following.

1. Disc getting deeper into my right pec, with the hand on the outside.

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The benefit of getting there, seems to be that the extension / pull around the nose, happens on a shorter arc. I could be wrong on this, but it seems that by delaying the pull-around the disc will be forced to move faster during the conversion of the angular rotation to forward ejection. (probably saying that wrong)... If I start extending with the disc more "center chest" - the arc feels slower and less powerful at the ejection.

It seems to put the horse power in the right place.

2. The deeper right pec seems to help with an "Active wrist". Holy smokes, I know this is a can of worms - and it may in fact be something else, but it feels like I'm hammering the disc to the right during the end of the pull around. I don't know if it's potentially the counterweight of my body rotating against the disc/arm - but when I come into the right pec, I'm thinking "No power" - and at the right pec, I hit the "extend and hammer the disc" button in my head. Since the disc is bending my wrist into the right pec due to the redirection, the wrist is loaded and tight.

It will often feel like a spring pulled tight, and I feel as though I can add to the un-springing of the tension by "hammering the disc".

3. All of the above is the collapsing, tensioning, unspringing mechanism that rides along on the right shoulder. Queue up the dingle arm. I imagine that the leading shoulder has a base of weight that gets driven open by my lower body and that you can drive the above mechanism to hammer harder by keeping tension against that shoulder as it rotates.

I have a tendency to bring the disc into the right pec and then extend, NOT being pulled through by the shoulder, which can feel more accurate - and easier to hit a specific line - but to get the full power, I have to sync the extension to the shoulder rotation.

If I'm doing it right, then my extended arm is very close to 90 degrees from my shoulders if I screen cap the ejection.

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When I'm throwing like this, I've been able to push 450'+ with distance drivers and a slow x-step that sets me up to uncork off my back ball of the foot. Whenever I try to throw it harder, things get worse though. The only place I really allow myself to put more into it is the grip gets a bit more firm and I try to hammer the disc deep and keep the whole thing "forward".
 
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Heh, you're using different language to describe what I discovered back in 2012 or so. It is a great feeling when you can get a full hit on a disc. It really does become a linear "punch" that makes a lot of things easier (power, aim, etc). Keep up with the field work and drill it in. Don't be surprised if you'll lose it for a bit then get it back. Don't be discouraged.

I took a long time off due to an injury and am getting back into it now and find that I can't get my body into proper alignment for the hit. It's something I have to figure out in the field.

Wait until you learn to time a fully extended reach back with that "punch". New personal distance records will be broken.
 
The benefit of getting there, seems to be that the extension / pull around the nose, happens on a shorter arc. I could be wrong on this, but it seems that by delaying the pull-around the disc will be forced to move faster during the conversion of the angular rotation to forward ejection. (probably saying that wrong)... If I start extending with the disc more "center chest" - the arc feels slower and less powerful at the ejection.

.............

I have a tendency to bring the disc into the right pec and then extend, NOT being pulled through by the shoulder, which can feel more accurate - and easier to hit a specific line - but to get the full power, I have to sync the extension to the shoulder rotation.

If I'm doing it right, then my extended arm is very close to 90 degrees from my shoulders if I screen cap the ejection.

I know what you are describing, although I have never thrown a mid 350'. It is likely a different feel for everyone compared to what their usual is, but for me I tend to get a better load up for that quick crisp wrist explosion when I do a wide rail reach back and really let the X-step put my reach back into the correct timing, lagging into the plant for a good coil up through my hips.

However this is different from that next level of power/explosion, which I have only felt on a few days. When I've done that I've hit 430-440', and then lost it on further sessions. This is what you describe as syncing the extension with shoulder rotation. Feeling my spine/brace firmly as an axis, and then once my hips have generated the power my shoulder has no choice but to uncork, and it's doing this in a very controlled/balanced manner. This is when my arm feels like a spring that unleashes the disc at higher speed. Usually I guess I go into the extension phase too early, I think this is an issue.

I wish I could do some field practice...
 
Way to go, Jason. Those are some crushes. I'm a little jealous that you can do fieldwork; the winter has been in full swing over here.

Extending further into the right pec is interesting... I don't think I've ever gotten them timing right to try to push that further. It always seems like when I try to do that I end up rotating out with my shoulders too soon and miss the hit altogether.

Get some video up! I want to see these bombs in action.
 
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Extending further into the right pec is interesting... I don't think I've ever gotten them timing right to try to push that further. It always seems like when I try to do that I end up rotating out with my shoulders too soon and miss the hit altogether.

Funny enough, it was your video : https://youtu.be/Khiwffy5T3c

That led me to this! I was looking at that off arm article, and was like "dang, cLard really gets that disc deep into the right pec... I wonder if I've been slacking?"

Sure enough, video proved that I had very much been slacking.

So I went back to really delaying the acceleration and relearning lessons I swear I've learned before.
 
Huh, I actually do a pretty good job with that! I'm going to credit the right pec drill for that.
 
Funny enough, it was your video : https://youtu.be/Khiwffy5T3c

That led me to this! I was looking at that off arm article, and was like "dang, cLard really gets that disc deep into the right pec... I wonder if I've been slacking?"

Sure enough, video proved that I had very much been slacking.

So I went back to really delaying the acceleration and relearning lessons I swear I've learned before.

Yeah this "corking the shoulder" has been something im working on. I have also found delaying the acceleration and being smooth with the weight transfer has helped alot
 
Yeah this "corking the shoulder" has been something im working on. I have also found delaying the acceleration and being smooth with the weight transfer has helped alot

I don't know if this is something I should be relieved to hear or not that so many who have been students of form for so long are in this same area.
I've been thinking a lot on fixing issues and came sorta to this conclusion recently. Some of my longest distances have been shanks to the far right, not just from throwing my balance off, but a timing problem.
My own conclusions were that timing of the shoulders needs to delay vs what we are used to vs a normal throw or a bat swing. In our normal throw we clear the front shoulder and throw with the rear arm and with bat swings the full hit is near a point perpendicular to the body.
In order to get the front arm to a full hit the upper body needs to be a bit delayed.
I can feel it but really random and can't get a repeat of the perfect feeling. My other issue I'm finding is rotator cuff issues and flexibility. I'm getting to the point I may either not be able to throw a proper full hit or I will need some serious work on my shoulder flexibility.
 
My other issue I'm finding is rotator cuff issues and flexibility. I'm getting to the point I may either not be able to throw a proper full hit or I will need some serious work on my shoulder flexibility.

I've found that if I let my elbow drop during the throw, that leads to a change in how the arm extends. With it low, it involves the rotator cuff, whereas with the elbow staying up, it's all triceps. The lowered elbow can also contribute to OAT, as it's easy to roll the wrist when extending in that fashion.
 
I've found that if I let my elbow drop during the throw, that leads to a change in how the arm extends. With it low, it involves the rotator cuff, whereas with the elbow staying up, it's all triceps. The lowered elbow can also contribute to OAT, as it's easy to roll the wrist when extending in that fashion.

Depends on which of the four muscle/tendons are the issue in the shoulder. For me it is getting the elbow up that is really difficult. There is a very slight change from feeling good to no go and it is around good form at the right pec.
The end result is a tensed up shoulder and I end up guarding the shoulder and doing a bent arm throw with no ability to follow through. it's NOT the same feeling in my shoulder as trying to throw overhand though so I'm hopeful I can work through the motion slowly and get the full range of motion. I tried going lower and no pain, but did notice the inability to keep the disc on a flat plane.
 
In order to get the front arm to a full hit the upper body needs to be a bit delayed.
I can feel it but really random and can't get a repeat of the perfect feeling. My other issue I'm finding is rotator cuff issues and flexibility. I'm getting to the point I may either not be able to throw a proper full hit or I will need some serious work on my shoulder flexibility.

Once you get the proper movement of the body, all youll be delaying is when you really start to pull the disc.
 
Depends on which of the four muscle/tendons are the issue in the shoulder. For me it is getting the elbow up that is really difficult.

Ooh...I feel for you. Yeah, I'd be really careful if I had that issue, too.

As it is, my shoulder is really tight when I try an overhand these days. I suspect I'm going to have to do lots of exercises and stretching to be able to launch anything at full power that way. I'm already trying to ease my elbow into accepting forehands.

Never get old, kids.
 
did a little practice with "corking the shoulder" this weekend and it definitely works, but its going to take some getting used to. It really speeds up my arm coming around, so i have to adjust for that and the angle.. but yeah I was throwing further with what felt like less effort.
 
His angles are just BETTER.

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I got lazy with my off arm. Simon keeps it tighter. He generates power with his lower body better and can get lower than I can.
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He's keeping hand more on the outside longer, giving a faster ejection.
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It's pretty noticeable at this point. His hand is waiting longer to pull around.
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Also notice that he opens his plant foot sooner.
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For reference, I threw that wizard 290' on a hyzer and about 5' uphill. More work to do...
 
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