Harder Courses for worlds?

[Disczealot]

Determining par shouldn't be that complicated.

Why can't par just be the most common score for MPO players on that hole? This can be explained easily to anyone who is not familiar with how disc golf scoring differs from ball golf and will also give an idea for how well a player is doing during competition compared to the "average" MPO player.

Also, I agree that there must be separation (not from luck) on a hole for it to be good for tournament play. Give me 18 separation holes and you have the perfect tournament course.

 

[scarpfish]

Determining par shouldn't be that complicated.

Why can't par just be the most common score for MPO players on that hole?

So if there's 25 MPO players and there are two (2's), eleven (3's), ten (4's), and two (5's) that makes it a par 3? Would the par change if one of the 3's was a 4 instead?

 

[Disczealot]

So if there's 25 MPO players and there are two (2's), eleven (3's), ten (4's), and two (5's) that makes it a par 3? Would the par change if one of the 3's was a 4 instead?

Yes and Yes. But ideally you would have a much larger sample size.

 

[DavidSauls]

Any mathematical formula for determining par is bound to have a few borderline holes, where judgment has to be imposed. But they'd be infrequent enough that it would still be preferable to the current situation.

 

[Steve West]

Determining par shouldn't be that complicated.

Why can't par just be the most common score for MPO players on that hole? This can be explained easily to anyone who is not familiar with how disc golf scoring differs from ball golf and will also give an idea for how well a player is doing during competition compared to the "average" MPO player.

Also, I agree that there must be separation (not from luck) on a hole for it to be good for tournament play. Give me 18 separation holes and you have the perfect tournament course.

My response is in the Worlds Par thread.

 

[JRW III]

For the most part I agree. The problem is that you need people with harder courses to be putting bids in. When DD wants to host a worlds on less then great courses, you pretty much have to give it to DD because they know what they're doing.

When DD wants to host a worlds on less then great courses, you pretty much have to give it to DD because there are not a whole lot of qualified groups offering up to host pro worlds.

 

[nightwing]

Just for me at least, the issue is not so much the numbers as the monotony. Too many courses let top players control a backhand hyzer on most holes. Then you see the same long but unabated putts on the same, mostly open greens over and over. If more technical courses could ALSO have distance, so much the better and the scores would then be closer to par.

 

[scarpfish]

When DD wants to host a worlds on less then great courses, you pretty much have to give it to DD because there are not a whole lot of qualified groups offering up to host pro worlds.

This is the little dose of reality that the "who wants to play DG in Kansas (in August)" peanut gallery crowd on here can't get through their skulls. Good organization and less than ideal courses will generally win out over the opposite situation when the PDGA considers bids.

It should also be remembered that without the backing of a business like DD, Innova or Vibram, or an otherwise significant effort to get sponsorship cash, Pro Worlds is often a money sink for a local club.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

I believe your judgment is off regarding the general need for some of those stats for fantasy and wagering regardless of your disdain for them. But the bigger value than pro tour stats is when a service is available with a better way to enter and track stats for the average player who can use them to improve their game. And there are stats you've never seen that are more useful than the ones people have seen so far. Accurate par is essential for easier tracking, calculating and understanding the newer stats. Frankly, I'm not convinced the current stats have much value until they are connected with physical hole characteristics. It doesn't make sense to combine stats from open and wooded holes or courses, for example. But an adequate way to code hole characteristics hasn't yet been developed to synchronize with stats.

Nah, those stats are not needed for handicapping or wagering. You need stats for fantasy, yea, but you also want those stats to correlate with a good performance, and DIF and GIR stats by in large do not. You don;t want a guy having a great fantasy output if his actual performance was garbage, and that could very well happen if our main stat lines are the aforementioned stats. You just stated yourself in another thread that hitting a green was all luck and totally random. Even Ball Golf, where those stats have a bit more significance, DOES NOT use those for fantasy Golf.

If you are saying these current worthless stats are just laying the foundation for stats of actual value down the road, well I'll take you at your word, because I know you're good at what you do. You're not going to convince me that DIF gives any indication of performance AT ALL. The guy from Udisc was in the live chat asking us if we thought that landing in the middle of a massive bush cluster in the middle of a hole should count as a fairway hit or not lol; my case in a nutshell.

Side note: Played Squaw Creek today. Gold course is an A+ in my book

 

[Cgkdisc]

I am totally onboard with the idea that several of the existing stats are or may not ultimately be useful and developing new stats and testing them to determine if they matter. My original premise in this dialog and main point is that an accurate par will matter for some of these stats to be calculated and useful whether for player development, fantasy or wagering. Accurate hole coding will also be fundamental for many of these stats to be relevant. Ultimately, if a stat does not correlate with performance in a particular event format and/or course terrain, it may only be window dressing for spectators interested in more traditional stats that are easier to understand.

 

[DiscLoser1]

This is the little dose of reality that the "who wants to play DG in Kansas (in August)" peanut gallery crowd on here can't get through their skulls. Good organization and less than ideal courses will generally win out over the opposite situation when the PDGA considers bids.

It should also be remembered that without the backing of a business like DD, Innova or Vibram, or an otherwise significant effort to get sponsorship cash, Pro Worlds is often a money sink for a local club.

Lighten up, Francis. Those comments are tongue in cheek.

Nice to know that your not part of the "peanut crowd", though the phrase is "peanut gallery", FYI. And obviously you are part of the DGCR cabal of known experts whose opinions are infallible and unassailable, so I understand your confusion over where the rest of us are with our peanuts.

I live in PA, and not only do we have oppressive heat and humidity, we also have wildly overgrown rough full of poison oak and ivy, stinging nettle, and giant spider webs. Seeing how deserted my local course is, the question might be: who wants to play disc golf in August, anywhere.

Par! Rabble rabble rabble.

 

[NDABRUSH]

Lighten up, Francis. Those comments are tongue in cheek.

Nice to know that your not part of the "peanut crowd", though the phrase is "peanut gallery", FYI. And obviously you are part of the DGCR cabal of known experts whose opinions are infallible and unassailable, so I understand your confusion over where the rest of us are with our peanuts.

I live in PA, and not only do we have oppressive heat and humidity, we also have wildly overgrown rough full of poison oak and ivy, stinging nettle, and giant spider webs. Seeing how deserted my local course is, the question might be: who wants to play disc golf in August, anywhere.

Par! Rabble rabble rabble.

I knew scarpfish was unassailable but could never prove it, until now.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

That's it! This touring during the summer thing needs to stop! Time to start the winter disc golf tour. No bugs, no heat and humidity, no undergrowth, no crowds of picnickers and dog walkers to contend with, AND it fits my schedule much better, I could tour for a couple months of the year How do we go about getting this ball rolling!?

 

[Steve West]

That's it! This touring during the summer thing needs to stop! Time to start the winter disc golf tour. No bugs, no heat and humidity, no undergrowth, no crowds of picnickers and dog walkers to contend with, AND it fits my schedule much better, I could tour for a couple months of the year How do we go about getting this ball rolling!?

Host one.

 

[TheC-Hill]

That's it! This touring during the summer thing needs to stop! Time to start the winter disc golf tour. No bugs, no heat and humidity, no undergrowth, no crowds of picnickers and dog walkers to contend with, AND it fits my schedule much better, I could tour for a couple months of the year How do we go about getting this ball rolling!?

I think you just start your own tour? Seems to be the hip thing to do. The Disc Golf Winter Tour, DGWT.... Oh wait

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Ok. The first event of the National Winter Order of Disc Golf is on November 5th at Bald/Golden Eagle disc golf course.

I'm hoping the Second is in Lander, Wyoming.

And the the third in Grand Junction, Colorado.

Maybe somewhere in New Mexico after that.

 

[zontar]

Nebraska in the dead of winter is perfect!

 

[HarkeyPuck]

Moraine in the winter is beautiful

 

[tampora]

Ok. The first event of the National Winter Order of Disc Golf is on November 5th at Bald/Golden Eagle disc golf course.

I'm hoping the Second is in Lander, Wyoming.

And the the third in Grand Junction, Colorado.

Maybe somewhere in New Mexico after that.

You can't call it "winter golf" and choose to play in places with no snow! I assume WY and CO aren't snowy in November....

 

[biscoe]

Hawk Hollow is awesome in the Winter too. The cow pies freeze and stick around for months.