Hardest hole you have played

[Olorin]

Maybe to be more succinct... I can think up the design for a Red level hole that could be "the most difficult hole in the world"...

...for a Red level expert player, which is the intended skill level for a Red level course.

 

[Olorin]

And while I'm thinking about it...

Is "the Most Difficult Gold level hole in the world" inherently more difficult than "the Most Difficult Green level hole in the world"?

My tentative answer is "Yes", but this is a question that I am truly open to hearing all sides of.

 

[BlueMonk]

I'm pretty new to the game and not very good, so maybe others would disagree, but hole 16 at Holly Woods just seems impossible to me. I think the tee signs for that middle 6 holes are numbered 1A–6A, so I'm not sure which one this is (maybe 5A?), but the picture below matches the one I'm thinking of.

The fairway dog legs right at the bottom of the elevation. Then there's a long, uphill path to the basket from there, lined with trees. What you can't see in the photo is that, to the right, there's water with fallen trees and vegetation everywhere. Trying for more distance off the tee pad with a forehand or big turnover shot risks the disk rolling into the swampy stuff. But if you err on the side of caution and stay left or drive too far straight, you're in a maze of trees.

I have no idea how to even approach this hole. I just don't have the accuracy to place my shots where they need to go. It's pretty much random luck for me whether I get through that stuff.

 

[Cerealman]

Regarding that Holly Woods hole:

My DG friend and I would say, that's four jump putts and then a tap-in for bogey.

 

[wjgray2]

Hole 17 at Northwoods in Morton, IL.

 

[Olorin]

Hole 17 at Northwoods in Morton, IL.

Why?

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

...for a Red level expert player . . .

I'm not certain you know what the word "expert" means.

 

[Olorin]

I'm a member of the Disc Golf Course Designers Group (DGCDG), and long ago Chuck Kennedy converted me in DGCDG discussions from my then-firmly held position that expert only = Gold level. I now believe that disc golf has the luxury to go beyond what our older cousin can do. That means that each skill level has an expert for that level. A concomitant corollary is that par should be set for the course level, not by a Gold 1000 rated player.

I'll let Chuck explain all of the details.

So, I believe that there are Red level experts (850 PR) and even Green level experts (800 PR). As well as White and Blue too.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's no different from ball golf. They have "experts" for each skill level a set of tees is designed for: Championship, Men, Women, Junior http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14407

 

[wellsbranch250]

So many to pick from, ill just stick with a few notable ones from Florida
Edward Medard #14, Par 3, 316 ft, 47 DGCR rounds scored with an average of 4.43
f this hole, its a plastic giveaway. tight fairway with hills sloping into deep water everywhere.
Jack McLean #17, Par 3, 400 ft, 26 DGCR rounds scored with an average of 4.5
back tee stats only as there are am tees too. up hill, tight fairway (15ft) sweeps right to left
Whispering Pines #10, Par 3, 383 ft, 18 DGCR rounds scored with an average of 4.44
very tight fairway (12ft) straight as an arrow on a 15 foot ridge. 3 trees spaced evenly 250 feet down fairway.
Gator Links #6, Par 3, 580 ft, 6 DGCR rounds scored with an average of 4.17
moderately wide fairway (25ft) all the way to the basket. hole bends slightly left.

 

[nate22]

hole 1 at Mundaring, Perth. Overall some tougher holes on that course, but combine the fact that its hole 1 at a MAJOR, there is usually a group or 3 watching, plus announcers, some pros around etc it plays on your mind...especially after you have parked one down the middle 20 times in a row in practice, then on day 1 it hooks 50m right.

OB down both sides of the fairway, left going all the way past the basket, the golf green also OB, combined with a few well placed trees around the approach to the green meant no round got off to a good start for me! Thankfully my best rd I par'd the final 5 holes to stay respectable!

 

[t i m]

Hole 5, Gold Teebox at Iron Hill in Delaware. It's a 690' true par 5. Tight fairway uphill for the first two shots to get out into the clear, then the basket is tucked up amongst trees and rocks, essentially an elevated putt. Any mistake anywhere along the way adds a stroke to your score--very little chance to recover. It's possible to take a 4, but a 5 feels like a victory and a 6 still feels OK, and that's playing as a 970ish-rated player.

Most people would probably say Hole 17 on the same course, an 860', true par 6 up with a similar setup... uphill pretty much the whole way with thousands of old-growth trees and a sharp mound up to the basket. It can be a beating, but it's still not too hard to take the six, and I've hit basket on some long attempts for 4... lots more open lines than hole 5. But it's a total beating at the end of a course after almost two miles of throwing. Taking a par 6 and walking away with your head still held high is mentally hard in a game where we've spent so many years getting used to 2s, 3s and 4s on almost every hole we play.

That said, it's an amazing course. Many days, my favorite course. No better place to see what your mental game is made of. One of my happiest disc golf memories is playing 4 rounds back-to-back from the golds with a friend and coming in under 300 strokes for the day.

 

[Tripper]

Ashe County Park, hole 11 Long (to Blue basket) is one of the most difficult holes for me to get a par 5 on. It is a true Blue level hole but at best I am a White level player. It is also the most unique hole in NC that I have played. I disliked it at first, but now it is my favorite hole on the course precisely because it so challenging!

The hole has a narrow fairway ending in the first wall of rhododendron bushes that you have to go over the top of, to a narrow tree lined landing zone blocked by a second wall of rhododendrons to go over the top of, to a fair but densely tree surrounded basket. If you ever go off the fairway there is usually only a short pitch back to your best landing zone for your next shot.

FWIW, with my skill level my perfect hole would be 1) drive in fairway, 2) thumber over the 1st wall of bushes, 3) thumber over 2nd wall of bushes, 4) make the birdie putt for 4. My best score so far is a 5 and that happens so rarely that I always feel elated when I get it.

Definitely a challenging hole. I have gotten a par and a double on back to back visits on this hole.

 

[Mando]

I can't tell you the hole # but French Creek longs had the hardest hole for me...brutal.

 

[jimimc]

Tim. 17 is now a par 5.

 

[Cerealman]

And Hole #17 at Iron Hill has fewer trees now ... several gentlemen were taking down three trees when I was there a few weeks ago. Genuine par 5 hole with a 4 definitely possible.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

So, I believe that there are Red level experts (850 PR) and even Green level experts (800 PR). As well as White and Blue too.

Fair enough if you want to use it as a term of art. I'm going to stay in the "it's an oxymoron" camp. To me that describes a very low skilled player as an "expert" at his level of play. This would be like saying an illiterate person who can read the word "stop" on signs, but nothing else, is an expert reader at the illiterate level. I'm okay with not being a 1000 rated player and would never think of myself as an "expert at my skill level."

So what is the purpose of using that term for people of reduced skill. Why not, "blue level player" or "red level player"?

 

[Olorin]

So what is the purpose of using that term for people of reduced skill. Why not, "blue level player" or "red level player"?

Take Blue for example: they have player ratings in the range of 926 to 975. I was refining a 975 PR player as the "expert" of this group because they have the highest skill level.

 

[Olorin]

I advocate that there are Red level experts (850 PR) and even Green level experts (800 PR). As well as White and Blue too.

Correction and clarification:
The experts for each Player Rating level are players rated:
Gold 1025 and above
Blue 975
White 925
Red 875
Green 825

 

[Olorin]

Should there be different par standards for different course levels (Gold, Blue, White, Red, Green)?

My thoughts are posted here at my (very basic) disc golf course design site.

I can also post the text here for people to read if that is easier.