Headphones in tournament play

[Cgkdisc]

Chuck I just don't get your train of reasoning here. Headphones are currently allowed, so isn't the burden of proof on someone to provide a compelling enough case AGAINST the status quo to merit a change in policy?

I'm suggesting that "professional" has already been defined by other sports our promoters and pros are striving to emulate. Their policy is no headphones except in at least the two sports mentioned upthread where it makes sense to allow them.

Tell me why it makes competitive sense to allow their use in DG competitions. Just one solid reason might hold off any ban in the long run even if no effort is taken to ban them now. This whole exercise was simply for the Competition Committee to discover the pros and cons players see out there. The PDGA admin and Board don't even have this on their agenda at this point. So far, it looks like opinions might end up being as equally divided as the 2m rule.

 

[Pwingles]

Dude that is pretty ridiculous. A deaf player is disabled. They are legally protected from being discriminated against, and can't make themselves undeaf. A player wearing headphones is choosing to to wear them and can take them out at any time for any reason. Its not the same thing at all.

Its not ridiculous. Offer me some sort of reason, that a player who is not hearing disabled, would not be allowed to wear head phones in a competition setting. Then tell me how that reason would not apply to a hearing disabled person. Then tell me how one or the other would not be experiencing discrimination of some kind...

If its a safety issue, then i guess deaf folks are SOL. They just wont be able to play competitions because of safety.

If its because you cant hear someone telling you its your turn, youre in the way, asking you what score you threw for the hole, or youre just generally unaware of whats going on because you cant hear, same as above. Those sweeping generalizations about hearing abled people using earbuds would HAVE to apply to those who simply arent able.

Since deaf people communicate in general and are able to socialize, those reasons arent usable.

So, what reason exactly, could you give for not allowing the use of headphones that wouldnt alienate hearing able, or disabled folks?

The only reason I could fathom (and it would still be stupid, IMO) is some sort of dress code violation.

 

[BgWvDave]

The survey attached to this thread shows a resounding majority see no reason to disallow their use.

The thread Chuckster started on Facebook shows a resounding majority think this is a waste of time of the Competition Committee.

Why does it need to make Competitive Sense?

why is the Competition Committee marginalizing personal preference?

If it ain't broke why fix it?????????????????????

 

[Cgkdisc]

I've really got nothing more to say. There's no vote on this pending or planned. So keep talking and we'll just listen.

 

[JC17393]

Tell me why it makes competitive sense to allow their use in DG competitions. Just one solid reason might hold off any ban in the long run even if no effort is taken to ban them now. This whole exercise was simply for the Competition Committee to discover the pros and cons players see out there. The PDGA admin and Board don't even have this on their agenda at this point. So far, it looks like opinions might end up being as equally divided as the 2m rule.

They HAVE NO EFFECT on competition, positively or negatively. So there's no reason to allow their use that "makes competitive sense", but there's also no reason to disallow their use that "makes competitive sense" (at least none that I've seen or heard that can't be dealt with by a pre-existing rule).

Something that has a neutral effect on competition seems like something that doesn't need to be addressed at all, IMO. Take that back to the committee.

 

[BgWvDave]

I've really got nothing more to say. There's no vote on this pending or planned. So keep talking and we'll just listen.

Huh? it's a discussion board....correct? You asked a question and you have people giving you answers. no need to get pissy because you and your committee are discussing things that have no relevance to the vast majority of the members of the organization.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not pissy at all. Just using my well-honed discussion (some call it trolling) skills to suggest that rational proactive reasons why headphones should be allowed could make more difference in the long run if it ever comes to a vote. I personally don't care either way and would likely abstain at this point if the committee wanted to push forward. There are many more items with much higher priority to improve the Competition Manual after our five hour meeting last night that this one barely registers a blip.

 

[BgWvDave]

Not pissy at all. Just using my well-honed discussion (some call it trolling) skills to suggest that rational proactive reasons why headphones should be allowed could make more difference in the long run if it ever comes to a vote. I personally don't care either way and would likely abstain at this point if the committee wanted to push forward. There are many more items with much higher priority to improve the Competition Manual after our five hour meeting last night that this one barely registers a blip.

Thanks for sharing Chuck! :clap:

 

[krupicka]

Its not ridiculous. Offer me some sort of reason, that a player who is not hearing disabled, would not be allowed to wear head phones in a competition setting. Then tell me how that reason would not apply to a hearing disabled person. Then tell me how one or the other would not be experiencing discrimination of some kind...

Someone wearing headphones to amplify the noises around them is obviously different than someone wearing headphones to block out the noises around them.

 

[BgWvDave]

Someone wearing headphones to amplify the noises around them is obviously different than someone wearing headphones to block out the noises around them.

I agree with the first part of your point, but the second is making an assumption that people that wear headphones are trying to block something out. that is not necessarily the case.

I enjoy conversing with the competitors on my card. I also like to listen to music. I also like to play disc golf. if I can combine the three and not negatively impact the people around me, whats the harm?

 

[JC17393]

I agree with the first part of your point, but the second is making an assumption that people that wear headphones are trying to block something out. that is not necessarily the case.

I enjoy conversing with the competitors on my card. I also like to listen to music. I also like to play disc golf. if I can combine the three and not negatively impact the people around me, whats the harm?

What if the headphones are to block out the voices in your head rather than the voices of other players?

 

[coupe]

I'm suggesting that "professional" has already been defined by other sports our promoters and pros are striving to emulate. Their policy is no headphones except in at least the two sports mentioned upthread where it makes sense to allow them.

Tell me why it makes competitive sense to allow their use in DG competitions. Just one solid reason might hold off any ban in the long run even if no effort is taken to ban them now. This whole exercise was simply for the Competition Committee to discover the pros and cons players see out there. The PDGA admin and Board don't even have this on their agenda at this point. So far, it looks like opinions might end up being as equally divided as the 2m rule.

SERIOUSLY????

You're talking about a sport where players run around hucking glorified tupperware lids into tarted up barbecue grills and you're worried that they won't look professional if they wear headphones?????!!!!! :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

 

[Cgkdisc]

SERIOUSLY????

You're talking about a sport where players run around hucking glorified tupperware lids into tarted up barbecue grills and you're worried that they won't look professional if they wear headphones?????!!!!! :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

I'm not worried about it. But sometime down the road, those pushing for more professionalism might consider it important. Hard to say. I think how these new tours turn out from a media and spectator standpoint may influence whether this topic comes up.

 

[Pbmercil]

Not pissy at all. Just using my well-honed discussion (some call it trolling) skills to suggest that rational proactive reasons why headphones should be allowed could make more difference in the long run if it ever comes to a vote.

Chuck I really don't get it. I understand that you say that you're totally neutral on the subject. But I don't understand why you feel that the burden of proof is on the pro headphone side to provide a compelling reason for them to be continued to be allowed, as opposed to the burden of proof being on the party who would be attempting to change the rules to prove why a rule change is needed.

 

[Pbmercil]

I'm not worried about it. But sometime down the road, those pushing for more professionalism might consider it important. Hard to say. I think how these new tours turn out from a media and spectator standpoint may influence whether this topic comes up.

I think that the competition committee should try to steer clear of overly subjective rule changes. What constitutes "Professionalism" is highly subjective, and I don't think it is in the PDGA members best interest for the competition committee to be devoting their time and energy to codify something that subjective. Frankly, I think the PDGA as an governing and organizational body should be avoiding getting into that kind of stuff.

 

[ru4por]

To each his own. I don't mind some conversation during a round, but I am not overly chatty. My only objection is to those that cut themselves off. As brought up earlier, it is more than annoying to have to repeatedly ask music man what his score was, if I am outside the circle, if my lie is right, if he minds if I putt out, who is away......

 

[coupe]

To each his own. I don't mind some conversation during a round, but I am not overly chatty. My only objection is to those that cut themselves off. As brought up earlier, it is more than annoying to have to repeatedly ask music man what his score was, if I am outside the circle, if my lie is right, if he minds if I putt out, who is away......

Again, the Rules already address these problems: either man up and call the courtesy violations or kwicherbellyachin'.

 

[coupe]

I'm not worried about it. But sometime down the road, those pushing for more professionalism might consider it important. Hard to say. I think how these new tours turn out from a media and spectator standpoint may influence whether this topic comes up.

The "lady" doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[BrotherDave]

This, this is the reason why so many people type out pDGA. This trivial, "no fun league" type malarkey right here.

Want a compelling reason why players should be allowed to wear headphones? How about so they can drown out their fellow players' obnoxious counting to thirty b/c they don't know the goddamn rules?

Ban it b/c other sports don't allow them? You know what most legitimate professional sports also don't allow? PEDs and tie dye shirts. Good luck with the expensive drug testing and fashion police committee that must be ensuing.

This petty nonsense is almost enough to prevent me from renewing membership. I get the rule fascism as a nature of the beast but this is just pathetic levels of BS.

 

[Pbmercil]

This petty nonsense is almost enough to prevent me from renewing membership. I get the rule fascism as a nature of the beast but this is just pathetic levels of BS.

Jesus dude. Hyperbole much lately? Chuck has already said this isn't even remotely being considered. That's quite an overreaction.