Headphones in tournament play

[notroman]

I played with headphones in for a couple of years. I am actually thinking of going back to doing that. I only put them in when it was my turn to throw/putt. I always made sure to take one earbud out after throwing. It's more fun to socialize with your card between throws. Unless they all suck. Then earbuds stay in.

Has this burned me? Yes. Once. Playing short 2 at Renny in Charlotte I wasn't even aware of the mando since I've only played the gold layout previously. Nailed my spike hyzer. Took the earbud out and my card mates tell me I missed the mando and how they tried warning me ahead of time :wall: That was the only stroke I lost due to headphones. Saved me countless strokes due to unheard distractions. There were MANY occasions where my card mates said things along the lines of "man, good thing you had your headphones on because _____ happened and it was loud while you were lining up your shot". Putting the second earbud into my ear became a part of my routine at the time.

 

[scarpfish]

I don't think we need a rule regulating headphone usage, but in my experience people needing to have them in during a tournament round have had a 'don't want to play with people who aren't my friends' vibe to them. Sorry, but being carded with strangers in a tournament comes with the territory. Got a problem with it, stick to casual play.

And I'm sure they're not all that bad. Caught one such person pencil whipping some years back and got him DQ'd. Maybe that experience colored my impressions a bit.

 

[krupicka]

I've played, and had rule discussions with, a number of deaf players. Playing with someone with headphones in is certainly no worse than that.

The difference is those that are deaf are still actively engaged. Those with headphones in both ears are trying to ignore the world around them.

If headphone wearers would follow the same pattern as Roman posted above where he takes one earbud out when not throwing, that would be the courteous thing to do.

 

[bradharris]

I think you mean different

I was waiting to make this same point. A Deaf player can call things with out being able to hear, so how is headphones different. You simply are chosing to be temporarily Deaf.

I think the word "challenging" is better. I don't mean to imply that I dislike playing with deaf players. I'm just saying that communicating with someone using earbuds is no more challenging than communicating with a deaf player.

The difference is those that are deaf are still actively engaged. Those with headphones in both ears are trying to ignore the world around them.

If headphone wearers would follow the same pattern as Roman posted above where he takes one earbud out when not throwing, that would be the courteous thing to do.

The rules are not intended to mandate social courtesy. Otherwise why not make a rule mandating the use of "please" and "thank you" whenever appropriate?

 

[JC17393]

I'd be curious to hear arguments for banning earbuds/headphones in competition that couldn't be addressed by the rules already in place (specifically, 801.04 Courtesy).

If it's a matter of not wanting people to be anti-social...the anti-social are going to be anti-social with or without headphones (they can bury their face in their phone or a book or just stand off to the side and quietly hum to themselves). A new rule won't change that.

If it's a matter of safety or inattentiveness, the courtesy rule specifically addresses players that fail to pay attention to their fellow players or surroundings. They're expected by rule to watch others and make calls when necessary. They're expected to assist in disc searches and stay out of the way and keep score properly...things that could be affected by a player being "off in his own world". Failing to do these things warrants courtesy warnings and possibly penalties.

As I said before, if whatever they're listening to isn't loud enough to disturb anyone else and they are otherwise doing what they're expected to do during the round, there's absolutely zero reason to take the headphones away. And if they are failing to do things expected of them during the round, there is recourse available in the book already. Take advantage of the rules as they are before we go adding to them unnecessarily.

 

[krupicka]

Then why is there a section in the rules "801.04 Courtesy"?

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change in the rules for this specifically, but I am advocating that players do conduct themselves in a courteous manner on the course.

 

[Pwingles]

The difference is those that are deaf are still actively engaged. Those with headphones in both ears are trying to ignore the world around them.

If headphone wearers would follow the same pattern as Roman posted above where he takes one earbud out when not throwing, that would be the courteous thing to do.

you are making a pretty big assumption about why people choose to wear them.

Maybe it helps them concentrate. Maybe its about motivation - hearing a song that gets them going. Maybe its because they dont feel like listening to your current conversation. Maybe their music is only loud enough for them to hear it a little and they can still hear most things being said around them, they just like having music on.

Maybe your expectations of people to need to be social with you and others is the thing thats rude and out of line. Sounds off putting when you present it that way, no?

Some people arent as socially out going as others. Maybe they have anxiety about those situations or maybe just competition in general, and the only way to calm that is to be comfortable. Might be in the form of ear buds, a way they dress, a pre throw routine, or whatever. Either way, most of the time it has nothing to do with you or what you want, and its selfish IMO, for you (or anyone) to expect everyone to be comfortable in the same way you are.

 

[Streets]

I don't think we need a rule regulating headphone usage, but in my experience people needing to have them in during a tournament round have had a 'don't want to play with people who aren't my friends' vibe to them. Sorry, but being carded with strangers in a tournament comes with the territory. Got a problem with it, stick to casual play.

And I'm sure they're not all that bad. Caught one such person pencil whipping some years back and got him DQ'd. Maybe that experience colored my impressions a bit.

I get this a little, but I'm not playing in a tournament to play with new people, I'm playing a tournament to score the best I can and headphones help that. Don't really care what people perceive that as.

 

[Streets]

The difference is those that are deaf are still actively engaged. Those with headphones in both ears are trying to ignore the world around them.

If headphone wearers would follow the same pattern as Roman posted above where he takes one earbud out when not throwing, that would be the courteous thing to do.

There is being courteous and then there is trying to control every little behavior on the course.

I'm not a fan of overly friendly local who thinks he needs to give tips, advice and what he throws on every single hole, or how to play a slight NW crosswind during a tournament setting. Can I call a courtesy violation on him for being a "know it all" super social butterfly?

To me, that's not being courteous, but then again I'm just an anti-social headphone wearer who shuts off the world around me. :|

 

[Hampstead]

I played a tourney round with a guy who wear earbuds in both ears. Said he did it because he was tired of card mates who talked too much. He was the most talkative guy I've ever played with. Thanks to the earbuds, he also had a tendency to talk too loud.

I played with a different guy who wore earbuds. He was constantly disconnected from what was going on. I had the scorecard and it was a pain in the azz to get his score. "Hey John, what you get?" "Hey, John!" It took several attempts to get his attention. Every hole this was a problem.

So, in conclusion, I don't really care but at least be courteous if you do. Please and thank you.

 

[zenbot]

I think headphones are such a bad idea for safety reasons.

 

[Pbmercil]

If it's a matter of safety or inattentiveness, the courtesy rule specifically addresses players that fail to pay attention to their fellow players or surroundings. They're expected by rule to watch others and make calls when necessary. They're expected to assist in disc searches and stay out of the way and keep score properly...things that could be affected by a player being "off in his own world". Failing to do these things warrants courtesy warnings and possibly penalties

The reason I don't see any reason to take issue with headphones is because all of the above is just as common with non headphone wearing players. Plenty of guys are just as likely to be off in their own world if they have music in or not. The headphones aren't really the issue, it's the overall level of attentiveness of the player. So I see no reason not to allow headphones.

 

[corin_brown]

and he can't hear and does it anyway. And while it's a player's right to isolate herself.

Lol, he/herself. Nice. A friendly warning, though: be careful that the anti-"females"-in-disc-golf jackboots over on the men-only "Why females can't ever be rated 1000 and should only try to play disc golf on men's terms" thread don't see your well-intentioned, gender-neutral pronoun usage. Could get ugly.

 

[Spinthrift]

I'm trying to think of another governed sport that allows headphones during sanctioned tournament or match play, and I can't.

Interestingly enough, there's another reason for banning headphones during play, according to the United States Golf Association (keeper of the rules):

The Rules of Golf: Rule 14-3
Wearing Headphones or Earplugs During Stipulated Round

The use of headphones or earplugs to eliminate noise or other distractions is prohibited under Rule 14-3.

Decision 14-3/16 covers listening to music or some other broadcast during a round. Here is the text of that Decision:

Rule 14-3a states that a player may not use any artificial device or unusual equipment that "might assist him making a stroke or in his play." Listening to music or a broadcast while making a stroke or for a prolonged period might assist the player in his play, for example, by eliminating distractions or promoting a good tempo. Therefore, the use of an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast, whether or not through headphones, while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time during a stipulated round is a breach of Rule 14-3. However, it would not be a breach of Rule 14-3 for a player to listen to a device briefly, for example, to obtain the results of another sporting event or traffic information, while walking between the putting green of one hole and the teeing ground of another hole.

There is no restriction on listening to music or other broadcasts while practicing (whether on the practice ground or on the golf course, and whether by oneself or while playing with others), although club rules and disciplinary codes could apply in such circumstances.

So, in the sense that it creates an unfair advantage (and players will tell you they wear earbuds because they play better), it's no different than any other banned performance-enhancer. And, BTW, the PDGA also already bans artificial devices that assist play, so it's only a matter of defining earbuds/headphones/earplugs as "artificial devices."

 

[Countchunkula]

If I was to wear headphones during a tourney (haven't yet); I would only put an earbud in one ear. I do that at work when doing the more mindless, repetitive tasks (invoice entry, account reconciliations, etc.). I can get into my zone while still being able to communicate.

 

[JeremyKShort]

As long as it isn't audible to other players, and doesn't stop the player from paying attention, then I don't see an issue. If it distracted them to the point that they they wandered into to players way or held up play then it could be considered a courtesy violation.

Frankly I find listening to your music on headphones to be far better than blasting it out of your cell phone.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I'm trying to think of another governed sport that allows headphones during sanctioned tournament or match play, and I can't.

Interestingly enough, there's another reason for banning headphones during play, according to the United States Golf Association (keeper of the rules):

The Rules of Golf: Rule 14-3
Wearing Headphones or Earplugs During Stipulated Round

So, in the sense that it creates an unfair advantage (and players will tell you they wear earbuds because they play better), it's no different than any other banned performance-enhancer. And, BTW, the PDGA also already bans artificial devices that assist play, so it's only a matter of defining earbuds/headphones/earplugs as "artificial devices."

That's an interesting point. The same logic could be applied to PDGA rules. I'm not sure if I'd want to ban them, but this does make a point for it.

 

[Streets]

So, in the sense that it creates an unfair advantage (and players will tell you they wear earbuds because they play better), it's no different than any other banned performance-enhancer. And, BTW, the PDGA also already bans artificial devices that assist play, so it's only a matter of defining earbuds/headphones/earplugs as "artificial devices."

So, by that reasoning, we need to ban birdie bags, chalk bags, towels, sunglasses, hats and on and on and on.

 

[prerube]

I totally get what your trying to say, but come on man. Choosing to be temporarily def is not the same thing As having a permanent hearing disability.

but the points being made are that you can't call penalties if you cant hear. That's simply not true.

 

[prerube]

Then why is there a section in the rules "801.04 Courtesy"?

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change in the rules for this specifically, but I am advocating that players do conduct themselves in a courteous manner on the course.

Why limit it to headphones. If its about courtesy then I will call you every time someone checks facebook during a round.