Help me reach 500'

[Icarus]

Background (form check links are at the bottom of this post):

Started playing 4 years ago. After a year and a half of playing, I found this forum and posted a form check request/video (see link to original form check videos below). At this point I was throwing somewhere over 300' consistently.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129848

Fast forward to now. I have implemented some of the suggestions and practice drills and have improved my form somewhat. I am now consistently hitting 390-400' (2/3 drives), with great (1 out of every 20) drives going 415-425' and some occasional drives hitting 450'. I max out with mids (RocX3 and Mako3) around 320-330'. The driver distances are with either a seasoned champ valkyrie or champ/star destroyers. The destroyers are most consistent, but rarely break 415' because I can't get very much turn out of them at that distance. With no wind they will only flip to flat, then hyzer back out - I normally release these on slight hyzer during max power drives. The very few 450' drives I've had have been either with the champ valkyrie or a beat-in champ wraith (which has since been lost). These shots came out "different" (read, visually faster) than my normal throws, and flipped to a perfect S-turn for max distance.

I know I have the potential to get to 500' consistently. However, I've again reached a plateau in distance and am now posting my current form for help and improvement suggestions.

I only practice 1-2 times per week currently (I am on a 4 day/week weightlifting regimen currently), so that may be contributing to the plateau.

Front:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Es-emyhh1I

Back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEFYi8s6cFA

 

[auzcar]

The videos are private

 

[Icarus]

The videos should be fixed now.

 

[sidewinder22]

Way too crouched in the x-step and your left foot plants pigeon toed - more pointed at target than away. Stand up taller and walk more relaxed into x-step. Standing up taller should also help you turn further back into the plant.

Also note your left arm is dragging behind your plant instead of helping going into the plant.

 

[Icarus]

Thanks for the feedback, SW22. Pausing around 0:03 on the "Front" video (screenshot attached), my left foot appears to be parallel to the target -should it be pointing more backwards? Any suggestions to work on the dangle arm?

Also, does balance/weight shift look okay?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, turning your rear foot further back will help open up the backswing to allow your shoulder to swing back behind your head/chin. You are restricting yourself with the rear foot pointed forward too much and also collapsing the rear knee inward which affects your stability and balance. And the crouching also restricts the ability or mobility to turn.

Your arm motion appears to be ok. Work on your lower body and getting your hips/shoulders/torso turned further back.

 

[sidewinder22]

Young Simon with tall x-step.

 

[Icarus]

Thank you so much, SW - I'll give that some work. Regarding the "dangle" arm - I've noticed many pros, when in the middle of the throw, have the arm basically pointed downwards and pressed against their body - see both the Simon and Eagle videos you posted. I've still got mine bent a bit and slightly out from the body. Much like a ice skater - wouldn't having the arm further from my body slow my rotation?

 

[sidewinder22]

Not sure what part is the middle?

 

[Icarus]

By middle I mean as they are pulling the disc across their chest, but before release. In the third thumbnail in my previous post, my arm is bent while the pros seem to have their off arm pointed straight down.

 

[sidewinder22]

By middle I mean as they are pulling the disc across their chest, but before release. In the third thumbnail in my previous post, my arm is bent while the pros seem to have their off arm pointed straight down.

Oh, you talking about the off-arm dangle. I thought you were referencing the Reciprocating Dingle Arm with the lead arm.

Part of the reason your left arm goes behind your back like the pic I posted is you are trying to use your left arm to help turn your shoulders back instead of the hips turning the shoulders back - as your hips are restricted from turning back from the rear foot/knee too inward facing.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124523

 

[Icarus]

Way too crouched in the x-step and your left foot plants pigeon toed - more pointed at target than away. Stand up taller and walk more relaxed into x-step. Standing up taller should also help you turn further back into the plant.

Update:
First, THANK YOU! I prioritized your suggestions into 3 steps, and attempted step #1 today. There was a slight tailwind (an inconsistent ~0-10 mph), but with implementing step 1 my throws went from 390-400' (2 weeks ago in no-wind condition) to 430-470' (measured with both UDisc and Google Maps).

1. Stand more upright during x-step. Enables further hip rotation.
2. Plant more away from target with rear foot and point hips further away.
3. When steps 1&2 are done, finally address off-arm (left) if it remains a problem.

My shortest throw out of 15 throws was 430', and that was because I hit a tree trunk that knocked it down. I'm not kidding here - the destroyers, which normally would never flip at all in even a small tailwind, were slightly flexing during flight. There was an obvious increase in disc speed to my eyes.

I know the tailwind helped the distance numbers, but I did wait for the wind to die down before throwing some of my throws and I didn't notice much of a difference in distance. I'm willing to bet step 1 has added at least 30-40' to my max distance.

How do I know I stood up more? I filmed from behind and measure the right foot angles using CAD software, and compared my prior, current, and McBeth's forms in the picture below. Since I was filmed from the same camera angle I know my angle has changed significantly. Comparing the angle to McBeth's angle is a bit tricker due to the higher camera angle, but I still provided it for reference.

I filmed both back and front, and the plant foot angle and off-arm angle are still there. However, I think I have a good base feel for implementing step 1 and working it into my normal drive feeling. Once that is comfortable, I'll start with step 2.

Front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGw_Hh8ZV1I&ab_channel=Icarus

Rear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FoeXRfZ-VM&ab_channel=Icarus

X-step Angle Comparison

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how your knees are pinched in and restricted from the ground up and your feet separate ahead of knees. Paul is much more relaxed with rear foot/knee/hip turned back and space between the knees and knees separating ahead of the feet or more together.

 

[Icarus]

Yep - the close knees is a symptom of the back leg/foot not being turned back far enough. This was my first attempt at improvement based on your suggestions, and I only focused on getting less crouched in the x-step. I find that if I try to change too many different things at once, my timing gets shot and everything messes up. Does the 3 step plan above sound like a logical progression?

 

[sidewinder22]

IMO they are all kind of inter-related to each other. Left arm gets out of whack because of the posture/balance issue.

 

[Flashblastx]

Just my two cents.

Tell me if I'm wrong but it seems like you are trying to get into the correct positions but kind of forcing it.

All the pros land with their front leg internally rotated, is this something you're focusing on? It should happen more naturally with the shift from behind but it appears maybe that's why it is so internally rotated during the stride?

If you feel like your timing is off it may be because you're not becoming a slingshot like what the door frame drills teach. If that drill doesn't work for you or you can't feel that action I would suggest learning that. It will save you a ton of headache, trust me on that haha

Also on the back view it seems like you're falling forward a bit. Think the butt wipe drill but your butt is coming off the wall at the beginning.

Also looks like left arm is helping you rotate back instead of the disc/shoulder pulling you back into the backswing.

 

[Icarus]

Update below - focusing on getting the rear foot and hip turned back when entering the x-step. I still have issues with keeping more upright while doing this, but throws are getting better.

I also noticed that now my front plant foot is planting with more toes forward than I should. My rear foot used to be more neutral, but now that it is planted more rearwards this is making me a bit horse-stanced. I think I need to reorient my front plant as well.

Still better distance today. With no wind and flat soccer field - 410'-430' throws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_I_9vEUY94

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you need to turn your front leg further back into the plant. Your x-step is very crouched and fast. Slow down. Accelerate into the plant, not the x-step. Your swing looks good otherwise.

 

[hawgdriver]

Young Simon with tall x-step.

Haven't seen this one before.

Sometimes I imagine that there's scale under my plant foot, and I wonder what the maximum reading would be as all my momentum/force is driven into that scale. Like when you are a kid and make yourself weigh 300 pounds or more (was that just me?).

With this video, Simon might have bruised the earth, he drives into that plant foot so hard. He definitely stays tall, even raises his CG during his x.

 

[Icarus]

2/9/22 Update:

I was off for 3 months due to an unrelated hamstring injury. I just got back into throwing hard a few weeks ago, and am back to about where I was before, distance-wise, usually hitting 400-430' on a normal throw. Better throws measure up to 450-460'.

I've tried to implement some of the suggestions in the past few weeks to plant the rear foot further back. Video is below of an example throw today.

I am struggling with one thing with a further-turned back rear foot - it seems to sometimes, but not always, affect my weight transfer (i.e. weight shift doesn't happen), dropping my back shoulder and skying the disc. Also my front foot plant hasn't improved much, I don't think. I also think this is throwing my timing off a bit, as I seem to reach full "reachback" a bit before the front foot plants.

Suggestions?

420' throw

https://youtu.be/uaWxLrZUNkE

How do you embed videos again?