Help me reach 500'

[Cowabungapizzabomb]

Pros seem to have their plant foot/leg either staying neutral or rotating closed a bit on like the last foot before it plants. Yours is opening a good bit in that stretch. I have the same problem and don't really know how to change it, but it definitely has to do with the scale analogy above.

For the timing of your arm winding up, it seems to me that a lot of players who have the throwing elbow bent and do the elbow pump that you do, also reach back a little early. I think its because the natural reaction to the elbow pump is to poke the disc backwards and that motion just happens quicker than you want. You could try doing a Philo type pump with the straighter arm or a pendulum type backswing to make the disc take longer getting back there.

 

[BruisedOoze]

https://youtu.be/uaWxLrZUNkE

How do you embed videos again?

In the YouTube wrap (next to spoilers button or type it out) just put the letter label at the end of the youtube link. For yours it would be ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

 

[sidewinder22]

Hinge back into rear hip going into plant.

 

[Icarus]

SW22, I've done that exercise, but it already felt very natural. Comparing this video and my last, it looks (and feels when I throw) that my knees are much less pinched and that the cross-over part of the x-step is what is rotating my hips backwards.

It looks like during the x-step that my hips are closed nicely, but open up slightly as I plant. Could this be because I am taking a too-long plant stride, or is the length of the stride okay? Any ideas here?

 

[lostDoughnut]

this will show the hinge motion we are going for vs what you look like. the below images might be hinging too much but the drill is to get you to have a feeling i believe. also its best to exaggerate a movement vs slight changes.


here it looks like your left foot is a bit pidgeon toed. when i watch the video when your left foot gets behind you it looks like its pointed towards the basket a bit much. mayb this is why the hinge doesnt look as significant


you could get more loose and get that left shoulder closer to the target than your right shoulder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s

 

[lostDoughnut]

might it be plausible that you could be knee slamming with your left leg going into the plant? note how my knee moves at the 9 second marker

 

[Icarus]

Okay, last try at turning my rear foot and hips back more during normal practice throws. I'm gonna work on some drills this weekend. Any better on hip swivel and rear foot placement?

 

[sidewinder22]

Your steps are very quick and your right foot is turned back on first step and looks like your spine is extended/anterior pelvic tilt, and then you rise into the plant instead of fall.

Pay attention to the second golf vid, Fall into Motion.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415

 

[Icarus]

SW22, I think there is a bit of contradiction in some of this advice. The swivel stair drill has the right foot pointed backwards a bit as you descend the stairs, while the picture of Eagle there has the right foot pointed forward in a more ballerina-like movement, as your third pane. Those are quite different lower body movements. I guess I'm not seeing the connection between the two. With the right foot pointed more backwards on the first step, the hips swivel earlier. With a more forward-pointed first step, the hips don't swivel later. These feel entirely different when I do it both ways. Which one is what I'm trying to drive towards?

 

[Icarus]

Also, watching the 2013 EO lead card driving gif, none of them seem to have as extreme of a forward first right foot plant as Eagle - they all seem to have that step be perpendicular to the target. Most of the hip swivel seems to happen as they go into the final plant. One of my issues seems to be swiveling too early, and as I go into final right foot plant my hips are already turning back forward, whereas they are actually swiveling away at that point in the throw.

I can replicate that slowly, which ends with my front foot planted at a good angle, but I am not making the translation to an actual throw.



FYI I'm 6'2", if that makes a difference.

 

[sidewinder22]

Drills are drills and exaggerating things. I think in Swivel Stairs it's just easier to keep it turned back and perpetuate it, but also each step going downstairs with the right foot is more similar to the plant than walking into the x-step. Sometimes the best way to learn is to exaggerate both opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[Icarus]

Okay, so I've done some drill practice, as suggested - mostly swivel stair and doorframe drills. New throws are below. Throws shown were 425-450'. I really tried to work on my left arm, getting it close to the body when throwing.

Back View, 3 throws. The last two throws I tried pushing off of my right foot a bit during the x-step to facilitate the hip rotation. It seemed to help a bit, as there is more space between my knees on the last two throws.


Side View. 2 throws.


One other thing that I noticed is that my plant foot looks a bit open from the side view, but looks much more closed from the back view.

Any better, or does form still look about the same?

 

[lostDoughnut]

Back View, 3 throws.

image below looks like the angle the upper arm makes to the chest is a bit narrow. 'hugging yourself'


image below the legs are colliding into eachother. i have zero practice with xstep, possibly the feet are being placed in a position that are too close to eachother?

 

[lostDoughnut]

Side View. 2 throws.

you rotate flat footed (almost looks like closer to the front of the foot) vs on the heel of the plant foot (right foot).



mayb its caused by the spine being a bit too much tilted towards the basket (too much momentum or center of gravity too forward?)

 

[Icarus]

A few things.

From the back - I don't think I am "hugging myself" - see freeze frame below during the throw. Also, the close knees are something that's been pointed out before by SW22. I'm working on it - see the 2nd and 3rd throws from the back for better hip rotation to clear the knees. I also don't think the feet are too close together, though, even when knees are tight. See the other attachment below. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.

As for the rotating on the mid-foot - good catch. I'm not exactly sure what is causing that. It looks like I'm still planting a bit forward, which isn't completely "bracing" my momentum; thus some of my momentum still carries a bit forward, causing rotation at the mid-foot rather than the heel.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Left arm is too late. Body is too far over to the left/west Teeside. So your arm is slightly hugging or behind your body. Note how Paul's right shoulder stacks right over ankle and disc is inline behind, and his whole body is turned further back except the rear arm.

2. Your rear hip is restricted from turning further back or it's extended. Note how Eagle's rear hip is turned further back and closer to target from rear knee and his shoulders and frontside are turned further back, his rear shoulder is closer to target and front knee and lead shoulder closer to rear knee. Both your shoulders are closer to rear knee, so you are leaning back instead of turning back more centered while striding forward.

 

[Icarus]

1. Any suggestions for working on off-arm timing?
2. My left hip is definitely restricted from turning back more. I think this is caused, as noted before in this thread, by my right plant foot. With my toes slightly towards target, that opens my right hip up towards target and limits my left hip.

I can plant more rearwards when walking through the throw and through drills. For the life of me, though, I can't seem to get a more rearward-facing plant when throwing anywhere approaching full speed. Help.

As far as body position goes, you say I am slightly leaning away from target and westwards - is the solution to simply stride more upright in the throw?

 

[sidewinder22]

More upright or more centered or squeezed inside posture in all dimensions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=8m44s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

 

[Brychanus]

2. My left hip is definitely restricted from turning back more. I think this is caused, as noted before in this thread, by my right plant foot. With my toes slightly towards target, that opens my right hip up towards target and limits my left hip.

Sometimes it's easy to mix up cause/effect in form. The plant stride happens after the rear hip cock, so I'm offering another idea to try.

I'm speculating, but based on how you're moving you might check out the "Hip flexibility and strength" thread I just posted in the Techniques forum. You're very quick, but I'm wondering if your hips are a bit tight/bound up at either end of the range of motion you ideally want.

I was recently surprised at how restricted mine were esp. in the backswing when trying to achieve the maximum range of motion needed to fully align my posture when "Loading the Bow", YMMV.

 

[Icarus]

Thanks for the replies, all. Brychanus, I'm not sure the hip is the cause. If I get in a standing position with my front plant foot facing slightly towards target from neutral, my hips are severely restricted from turning back, and my front knee cannot turn inwards. By simply rotating my front plant foot slight away from target from neutral, I can easily rotate hips another 45-degrees backwards and I also can internally flex the knee, as is shown in loading the bow and arrow.

The difference is subtle (the change in foot anglemis only 20-30 degrees) but I think I'm still a bit "horse-stances". This is restriction in hip movement is natural and not due to mobility, I think.