How to Build a Bag

[garublador]

Some might notice that I don't post in this forum a whole lot. The main reason is that most of the time the advice I'd give is almost exactly the same each time and I don't want to type it over and over again. So I thought I'd do a quick write up of that advice once.

First, required reading:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/choosingadisc.shtml

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/discoverlap.shtml

Those will cover a lot of questions people have about how to put a bag together.

Your goal as a beginner is to both improve technique and line shaping. Start with this:

Putter - 1 mold, preferably a stable, in most cases beaded putter in low end plastic that isn't flexible (e.g. S Wizard, KC Aviar, D Challenger, D Focus, S Voodoo, etc.)

Mid - 1 mold, neutral to slightly overstable (e.g. DX Roc, Buzzz, Shark, Cro, Element, there's like a million of them).

Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)

Overstable Driver - 1 mold, overstable by design, not because of speed (e.g. Banshee, Firebird, Predator, etc.)

* The Cheetah and Polaris are easiest to control for those throwing <320' or so and the Gazelle, Cyclone and Eagle start off on the overstable side, but are more controllable if you're throwing farther. There are a lot more options, but those are my favorites.

Ideally, you'll be able to shape any line from pure hyzers to pure anhyzers and all sorts of 'S' and straight shots in between. Being able to control all of those discs on full power drives is important.

I'd recommend that setup for anyone who can't perform all shots with those four discs. If you have more molds it's OK to use them in field practice when fixing technique issues, but sticking to those four molds for rounds and for learning line shaping will make it a lot easier.

Once you get good at that, don't want to improve anymore and/or are hitting ~250' with putters, ~300' with mids and 320'-350' with your fairway drivers there are a couple other discs that might help.

At that point add:

Moderately overstable driver - something stable by design, not just by speed, but not super overstable and faster than your control driver (e.g. OLF, Z/ESP Avenger, Champ/Star Starfire-X, PD, etc.)

Distance driver - something that goes far (speed 9 if your control drivers are closer to 320', speed 9-11 if your control drivers are 350+). Your choice here will depend a lot on where you are, and how happy you are with your technique. It seems to be the most personal choice, but also the least important one as this will most likely be your least used disc.

Optional straight control driver - Many people like adding a Teebird for straight shots and as a "barometer" to see how well you're throwing. They can take as much power as anyone can muster, but (especially beat DX ones) they don't take kindly to OAT. Beat DX ones also go about as far as distance drivers with more control if you have more height to work with.

You'll notice I left off "Understable driver." IMO, beat control drivers and stable distance drivers are the best options for this spot. If you need a stop-gap solution for a tournament or something there are options, but once you get good with that first bag you'll both be good at forcing discs over (and "under" to make them hold hyzers) and you'll have beat up control drivers (remember how I said to buy the cheap plastic?).


When you get to the point where you're happy with your line shaping (you should be pretty good at it after that first bag) and technique, throw whatever you want. Pros are at this level and some choose to throw more molds, but can still play really well with the "beginners" bag setup I outlined above. If you develop those skills rather than just familiarity with a bunch of different discs, small changes from different runs, discs going OOP and courses you aren't familiar with all become much less of an issue. You'll always have the right disc for whatever shot, because you aren't dependent on your discs to make any specific shot.

 

[smyith]

There is only one part of this that i would disagree with you. Putting is a very unique to each individual. there are many styles and stable putters are not always the best choice. they lack glide especially and their late hook can cause many misses.
i have taught many people how to play (I coach a local HS club). new players 90% of the time seem to pick up putting easiest with a straight glidier putter such as the Aviar P&A, Magnet, Omega, Pure, & etc. the reason i think this works out better for new players is because they havnt developed the ability to accurate place their putter with pushing power. and trying to force that power in early only develops bad putting habits and frustration. there are numerous top end pros who putt with slightly understable putters.

 

[Technohic]

Nice post. I think I have been close to each of those phases in the past couple years; probably closer to the last part of just carrying whatever I want; except I have yet to do a good driver beyond fairway very much. I got an Avenger SS but its because its so flippy. I need to learn to throw drivers without such a hyzer angle. Been getting teebird 325-350' and the Avenger-SS for sure has hit 350'+ on a golf line but just havent had the luck with the faster ones.

Good news is, they dont stall out, they just come out on a hyzer, flatten for a little then fade more forward than what used to look like a boomerang.

 

[garublador]

There is only one part of this that i would disagree with you. Putting is a very unique to each individual. there are many styles and stable putters are not always the best choice. they lack glide especially and their late hook can cause many misses.
i have taught many people how to play (I coach a local HS club). new players 90% of the time seem to pick up putting easiest with a straight glidier putter such as the Aviar P&A, Magnet, Omega, Pure, & etc. the reason i think this works out better for new players is because they havnt developed the ability to accurate place their putter with pushing power. and trying to force that power in early only develops bad putting habits and frustration.

I'd call this a minor point and you really can go either way. At 20' and in I think a vast majority of the people asking questions on here won't have a problem generating the power needed to perform a putt. I'm more concerned about learning approach shots and drives. The slightly more stable, beaded putters (the Omega has a small bead) are a bit better in the wind, even for putts, and most of them won't flip, even on huge throws. I'd just assume start off with the putters that perform the best rather than starting with what's the easiest and then trying to figure out if it's you or the disc if it's windy or you get a really good pull. My main point is to avoid some of the overstable (e.g. Rhyno) or understable lid-like putters (e.g. Putt'r) when you start off.

there are numerous top end pros who putt with slightly understable putters.

I covered that in the last paragraph. They're in the "throw whatever you want because you're good enough that disc selection matters less" category.

 

[hewittdallas]

I really like this post and think it brings a lot of clarity to this topic.

With regards to the mids, do you not suggest people start out with something a little less stable? Even in the "Choosing the Right Golf Disc" article (which is a great read), Blake suggests starting out with something even less stable than a Buzzz or Roc. I didn't do this when I first started playing and really wish I did. I have found these molds to be among the best teaching discs and cleaned my form up so much. I believe he referred to them as "Neutral Mids" (e.g. Comet, Shark, Fuse, Element, etc...).

 

[smyith]

a buzzz is not overstable in D or X by any means and are great for beginners.
the right dx roc is good for beginners but if they get one of those overstable beauties then its bad.
notice he says slightly overstable. you want a beginner to be able to work a mid in all conditions. midranges teach disc golf fundamentals quickly. garublador mentions all "neutral" mids imo. to sit there and list them would be unnecessary.

@Graublador
I see your point but i still disagree. if you're more concerned with them using the putter for upshots and drives doesn't that go against the "drive for show, putt for dough" mentality? i would think you want the focus on putting over upshots with the putter. a midrange is better for that early on anyway. straight putters also fly very consistent in wind if you have good putting form. Just like you i live in wind country. im a good putter and i use a pure up to about 15-20mph without loss of accuracy or change in putt. i learned with and P&A, and used that while i lived in Iowa.
p.s. the aviar p&a and magnet have a small bead as well. still straight and glidy just like the omega

 

[burt5885]

Is this the same for RHFH? Any other options for this Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)???

 

[mashnut]

Great advice Garu, and it's something that's worked really well for me. I'm throwing a wizard, roc, gazelle, banshee/firebird, PD and wraith for all my shots. I've got a ton more consistency, distance and accuracy by learning to shape shots with those discs in different wear stages rather than the mess of molds I used to carry.

 

[Triflusal]

Is this the same for RHFH? Any other options for this Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)???

yeah it should be the same. If you turn those discs over it is not because you throw forehand, it is because your form is bad.

It is a common myth that forehand turns discs over because it is "more powerful" than backhand.

 

[hewittdallas]

a buzzz is not overstable in D or X by any means and are great for beginners. the right dx roc is good for beginners but if they get one of those overstable beauties then its bad.

notice he says slightly overstable. you want a beginner to be able to work a mid in all conditions. midranges teach disc golf fundamentals quickly. garublador mentions all "neutral" mids imo. to sit there and list them would be unnecessary.

I think we can all agree that a Buzzz is not overstable, especially in the D and X plastics. As for the Roc, if you are new to the game, you are going to have a hard time knowing exactly which one to buy if the goal is to get the less stable ones. Again, I'm not saying these discs shouldn't be in a players first bag, because I really believe they should.

My question was more related to the value of a "less stable" mid. It would be difficult for him to list them all out, but some of the ones in the few he mentioned are very, very different discs (e.g. Roc vs Element). Since the putter and mid will have such a big impact on the development of the player and their form/technique, it just seems to make sense that they have a couple different tools to learn with.

And maybe I am just way off base here, but I really believe a Fuse or Comet (for example) would have helped me shake a lot of bad habits early on. These molds taught me how to throw correctly, and still do for that matter. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Buzzz, but it is way more forgiving and thus, not as good of a teacher.

I guess what I'm getting at is do you think having two molds in the mid slot would be acceptable in the first bag? If someone would have handed me a Wizard, Fuse, and Buzzz when I just started, I feel like I could have shaved a couple months off the learning curve.

 

[smyith]

2 midrange molds is more of a 2nd or 3rd stage bag addition

 

[jtbingster]

I think we need to sticky this thread...

 

[garublador]

I'll concede that there are advantages with going less overstable with the putters and mids than the ones I suggested. It's why I made sure to make those articles "required reading." My approach is a bit more "hard core" than some, but my thought is that it will take a while to get a lot of the technique stuff anyway and that time can be spent beating the discs in. By the time you're getting good at controlling release angle and have any idea of how to eliminate/control OAT your discs will be a bit beat up and neutral. I also think that learning to play the fade is important. Fade is your friend if you know how to deal with it properly.

I honestly doubt it will make a big difference either way, but pointing out the differences and philosophies of why you might pick one over the other is an excellent addition to this thread and method.

I'm standing by my one putter and one mid rule, though. Doing more with fewer discs is the most important thing building your bag this way will teach. We're just nit picking on which ones to pick. The beauty is that if you do it all right, it won't matter which ones you picked.

 

[Technohic]

Is a putter always a putter or just the name it was given?

I generally only want to putt with a single putter but am carrying another for driving and approaches. found out pretty quick that no matter where I place that on the upshot, I don't want to putt with it because just the difference in carry affected how high/low I would pitch at the basket.

 

[smyith]

Is a putter always a putter or just the name it was given?

I generally only want to putt with a single putter but am carrying another for driving and approaches. found out pretty quick that no matter where I place that on the upshot, I don't want to putt with it because just the difference in carry affected how high/low I would pitch at the basket.

putter is a putter is a putter at 10', but at 20'+ is were you notice difference, which also depends on personal style.
it is very common in advanced bags to have 2-3 putters for varying uses. but in a stage 1 or 2 bag its not necessary or very good for skill building.

 

[hewittdallas]

I'll concede that there are advantages with going less overstable with the putters and mids than the ones I suggested. It's why I made sure to make those articles "required reading." My approach is a bit more "hard core" than some, but my thought is that it will take a while to get a lot of the technique stuff anyway and that time can be spent beating the discs in. By the time you're getting good at controlling release angle and have any idea of how to eliminate/control OAT your discs will be a bit beat up and neutral. I also think that learning to play the fade is important. Fade is your friend if you know how to deal with it properly.

I honestly doubt it will make a big difference either way, but pointing out the differences and philosophies of why you might pick one over the other is an excellent addition to this thread and method.

I'm standing by my one putter and one mid rule, though. Doing more with fewer discs is the most important thing building your bag this way will teach. We're just nit picking on which ones to pick. The beauty is that if you do it all right, it won't matter which ones you picked.

These are some great thoughts in addition to your original post! I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just curious. Since I pretty much had to relearn everything I ever knew about disc golf last year, much of the challenges of initial disc selection are still fresh in my mind.

I really like your explanation behind the choice of a more stable mid. However, if most new players are anything like me when I started, there is a good chance they will lose their mid before they sufficiently beat it in unless they play a very safe course. In fact, one of my biggest challenges early on was learning a disc and then losing it. :|

Again, I completely agree with everything you said. I just know that things seldom work the way we intend in this very imperfect world.

 

[garublador]

I really like your explanation behind the choice of a more stable mid. However, if most new players are anything like me when I started, there is a good chance they will lose their mid before they sufficiently beat it in unless they play a very safe course. In fact, one of my biggest challenges early on was learning a disc and then losing it. :|

That is a great point, and also a really good argument for buying baseline plastic, which is, IMO, more important than which slightly overstable to neutral mid you pick.

I found that I lost more discs after I learned to throw farther. It doesn't matter how inaccurate you are at 200', the discs just can't get that far away from you. It wasn't until I was at 320' or so before I really started to lose them.

 

[Technohic]

lol I just said to my one buddy the other day when I drove the 346' hole and he was commenting on it; (I know, not a big deal to some people, but for me and who I normally disc with, that's pretty far) and I told him that it just means when I have my wild throws that the disc will be even harder to find as I am able to throw deeper into woods.

 

[cfair]

That is a great point, and also a really good argument for buying baseline plastic, which is, IMO, more important than which slightly overstable to neutral mid you pick.

I found that I lost more discs after I learned to throw farther. It doesn't matter how inaccurate you are at 200', the discs just can't get that far away from you. It wasn't until I was at 320' or so before I really started to lose them.

I want to stress here the importance of baseline plastics as well. A 165-170g ProD or X Buzzz would be fine for someone to start off with. If you take the DGR views to heart the baseline plastics will more naturally teach you certain things better without you even knowing it. I can't tell you how much my form and game have improved by getting rid of Star, Champ, and Z plastics.

Lets take a look at weight for a second. I don't want it to be a big topic but I think that people should consider starting lower than 175g on any disc they buy. Not that they should go right to 150 class but you will have an easier time transitioning from strong arming to "smothing" the disc with lighter ones. There are other reasons but I don't want this to be an argumentative point but just a mindset that we should consider advising.

I personally though want to push for an understable/stable mid such as an X Comet. The reason being that as a person learns Comets will tell them more about their form than anything else. Hyzer angle, snap, oat, nose angle, arm speed and subtle settings of motion in your timing. This isn't a I'm a fan of this disc so I push it thing it is a I have seen the benefits because I took the advice of others who have seen the benefits. So I highly encourage an X (not Z) Comet and would ask for a reconsideration of it.

(p.s. I think it could be good to advise an understable mid like a comet or wolf to start out with and then after a couple of weeks go pick up a Roc, Buzzz, Shark, whatever.)

 

[smyith]

Lets take a look at weight for a second. I don't want it to be a big topic but I think that people should consider starting lower than 175g on any disc they buy. Not that they should go right to 150 class but you will have an easier time transitioning from strong arming to "smothing" the disc with lighter ones. There are other reasons but I don't want this to be an argumentative point but just a mindset that we should consider advising.

weight is VERY important for a few discs. drivers should be light to start off (150g is ok but as long as you dont get into the 170s youll be fine). mids and putters i do not agree with 150g class for most players, main reason is that mids and putters are much more sensitive in the wind then their heavier counterparts. i dont think they should go max weight but around the 170 area would probably be best, makes the disc much more workable

(p.s. I think it could be good to advise an understable mid like a comet or wolf to start out with and then after a couple of weeks go pick up a Roc, Buzzz, Shark, whatever.)

NO, that defeats the point of building youre bag along with your game/skill set. advancing that fast will only hurt yourself.
understable mids like the ones you suggest will not be beneficial to a newer player. this is a first driver mentality, they should be more understable. the mids and putters should be stable to slighlty overstable, they are much more useful and will improve form better than an understable version.
understable mids will produce one MAJOR bad habit, and thats heavy hyzer angle release. i know a few people with this problem (they will not listen to me or the several local pros...). stable mids will develop flat smooth release and help players to learn how angle can change the flight. understable mids are limited in the variety of shots they can accomplish were as stable mids have almost no limits.