I don't understand Disc Golf Par

[Olorin]

This thead has already established that "par" can be thrown out for DG since playing par golf in most cases only puts you at a rec level player (maybe less).

This is not true. Do you know that courses are classified by skill level (Gold, Blue, White, Rd, Green)? Par is set for each skill level, so par is still very relevant. To help people visualize the concept, the skill levels can be compared to the different tee colors in TG. Red Par on a Red level course is set for Red level players. The main point to remember is that the vast majority of DG courses are White or Red level. But since most DG courses only have 1 set of tees then they only have one skill level. Plus many people don't even know about the skill levels, and the course level is almost never classified. (That's why I include this information in my course reviews whenever I have the data to do so.) If par is set according to these levels it is totally appropriate. If a Gold level player (1000 PR) plays a White or Red level course then they will shoot well under par. That does not make par irrelevant. If Phil Mickelson plays from the red tees at your municipal course then he'll be well under par. That does not make par invalid for those whom the red tees were designed for.

Hey, I just realized that there is a kernel of truth in your statement. Even though par cannot be thrown out, since most courses are designed for Red (825-874 PR) or White (875-924 PR) level players then par (if correctly set) does apply more to the Rec level players that the courses are designed for.

 

[Craton]

Okay, at risk of NOT catching this as I skimmed through 7 pages, I'm going to make a few reasons WHY a good amount of disc golf courses, in my opinion, are set up to give just about anyone par or a birdie.

1) Disc Technology- In the past decade alone, we've already seen discs that can just cook. A lot of parks may be from the 90's or earlier, when you are dealing more with fairway drivers and midranges. There's a reason that Innova's Wolf used to say "Distance Driver" on it. So a lot of our courses play shorter than they used to, even if they are the same length.

2) Space- the amount of space a public park has will really cinch up the size of holes if they are trying to get the traditional 9/18 holes. You may end up with only a few decent holes, and a lot of filler holes.

3) Rec Players- already said, but worth noting. In order to get any fan base, and keep the interest in the sport, you're going to need venues for people who play maybe twice a summer or are out there with just their Cobra and some friends.

4) Green Layout- in ball golf, putting is extremely difficult. Landing on the green doesn't merit an automatic in, nor does the second shot. In ball golf, you have a lot of elevation in the landscape of the green, and are aiming for a cup sized hole. In disc golf, elevation is very rarely a factor inside of the circle, and you're aiming at something the size of a barbecue pit. It's not guaranteed you'll make it at this range, but your chances of success and amount of training/practice for a 20' shot are much diff. than in the ball version. You also have the advantage of being able to throw the disc on just about any line you want- hyze putts, loft putts, right for the chains- as opposed to hitting a ball EXACTLY on the line that will put it in.

 

[billnchristy]

I love how everyone says how easy it is to putt within 30'.

This weekend at my tournament I had 50' marked out in 5' increments and everyone who played was given 3 identical Vibram Summits. Now a strange disc IS a new experience but they were given 3 warm-up shots to get a quick feel for it.

The set up was as such, pick a mark, make a shot get that distance in points. You could move between shots and come up with any combo that gave you the better score.

Of the women Tabatha Simon won with a 55 which means that for 3 shots she hit a total of 55' worth of putts. Sarah Stanhope was second with a 50. A REC player named Kari got 3rd with a 40. So an adv, pro, and rec player placed and nobody made 3 30' putts.

I won in mens with a 60, I hit 3 20' putts in a row.

I would say 80% of the people who played hit 0.

Again, I know the alien putter thing was a factor but I had never used the disc either.

Hitting from 30' in is not as easy in a competition/pressure situation as everyone says it is. We also have factors on our "greens", elevation, wind, low lying branches, ground surface (if you miss is your putter going to sit or roll 100'?) etc...

 

[scarpfish]

Some folks here need to realize when you hear a disc golfer say "everything is par 3" they are making reference to a means to make scorekeeping easier, not the actual course par, and it doesn't help much when in 90 percent of cases they're probably right in respect to actual course par.

Of course, I was at an unsanctioned tournament yesterday and one of our top regional pros, you might know him from the Discraft "Mastering the Wind" article burned the normal 18 hole layout for a 42. Par 54?

Okay, at risk of NOT catching this as I skimmed through 7 pages, I'm going to make a few reasons WHY a good amount of disc golf courses, in my opinion, are set up to give just about anyone par or a birdie.
.......

4) Green Layout- in ball golf, putting is extremely difficult. Landing on the green doesn't merit an automatic in, nor does the second shot. In ball golf, you have a lot of elevation in the landscape of the green, and are aiming for a cup sized hole. In disc golf, elevation is very rarely a factor inside of the circle, and you're aiming at something the size of a barbecue pit. It's not guaranteed you'll make it at this range, but your chances of success and amount of training/practice for a 20' shot are much diff. than in the ball version. You also have the advantage of being able to throw the disc on just about any line you want- hyze putts, loft putts, right for the chains- as opposed to hitting a ball EXACTLY on the line that will put it in.

Putting in ball golf is a far more refined science. This is why a scratch player gets two shots to get it in once they make it on the green. In disc golf, they should only need one shot from the 10 meter circle barring some sort of danger which forces a lay up.

I also wish people would realize the role a ball golf green plays in helping to regulate par. Outside the green, a ball golf putter is next to useless. On the green, its essentially your only option. No such equipment restriction exists in disc golf.

This is why I hate people using methods of determining par in disc golf that are derived in some part from ball golf. The mechanics you would use in the completion of a hole are entirely different.

 

[DavidSauls]

I love how everyone says how easy it is to putt within 30'.

It's just that it's a lot easier than in ball golf, which skews some of the comparisons people make.

 

[DavidSauls]

As you visit this site more, you'll see that there are several schools of thought as to how par should be set, and how much it matters, and folks who are passionate about whichever camp they're in.

Just thought I'd quote myself from, oh, about 60 posts back on this thread.

 

[sillybizz]

Some folks here need to realize when you hear a disc golfer say "everything is par 3" they are making reference to a means to make scorekeeping easier, not the actual course par

This doesn't make keeping score any more easy; when you write down your score you write down the number of throws it took you to hole out, not "par" or "birdie".

 

[craftsman]

I only write down my score for leagues and tourneys. Even then it makes it easy to keep track without the card.

 

[charris414]

Not sure in which direction this discussion thread is headed, but at the risk of being repetitive, here's my synopsis:

1. Using a standard of par 54 allows for relatively quick and easy scoring at the end of a round. Count the number of strokes above 3 for each hole, subtract the number of strokes below, and bingo ... you've got your score. This is an ingrained "tradition" in disc golf, and one that no one should have any issues with.

2. Disc golf "par" is a very different concept than in ball golf. Ball golf has had the benefit of 100 years or more to be definitively decided upon, and is based almost entirely on yardage.

3. Disc golf par is truly relative to each individual hole at each individual course, and probably for each individual golfer. It depends upon the effective hole length, and IMO, how many reasonable throws it takes to reach the green. If a 1000-rated player is taking two shots to reach the green, regardless of disc selection or the distance of each shot, then that hole is a par 4. The 1000-rated player should reach the green in two throws and have a putt for 3. If they miss the putt, they should have less than a 15' putt for a four. Or "par" for that hole.

It is an antiquated notion to think that every hole is a "par 3" regardless of hole length, obstacles, etc.

 

[DavidSauls]

This doesn't make keeping score any more easy; when you write down your score you write down the number of throws it took you to hole out, not "par" or "birdie".

Scarpfish has it exactly right---it's a scorekeeping system. It's also an abuse of the word "par", which tends to ignite these discussions.

It's easier because you don't have to write down scores at all. You can keep them in your head. On a course where you shoot under 63, you'll get a lot of 3s and only need to change your running score on the relatively fewer holes on which you get a 2 (or 4 or 5 or whatever).

It's easier because you don't need a scorecard or map to know what the par is for a given hole. You don't get halfway down the fairway, or to the basket, having forgot to look at the sign, or forgotten what par it said.

It's even easier with a scorecard, on most courses, because you can scan across it for the numbers that are over or under 3, and do a quick calculation relative to 54.

 

[DavidSauls]

....and, as take the turn into the 8th page, the title to this thread, started by a newcomer, sure makes a lot of sense:

"I don't understand Disc Golf Par"!

 

[grodney]

Olorin, it's all good, no offense taken for the "ilk". I just have nothing to do with the scoring average ilk.

 

[Terry C]

Someone have some balls and say par is always 3. I already had a thread about this that went total flame war about a month ago. opcorn:

 

[Vegan Ray]

If counting is so difficult for some & keeping score relative to a same-for-every-hole 'par' is so much easier, why don't we deem each hole a par zero. Then your 'relative to static par' count (supposedly so easy) will be equivalent to your 'actually count & add up your scores' count (supposedly impossibly difficult) & both camps are appeased. Call me the great reconciler.

 

[DavidSauls]

Because....

It's only easier if, on most holes, your score is, or is close to, the benchmark. Which on most courses, for those of us using it, is "3".

 

[DavidSauls]

Someone have some balls and say par is always 3. I already had a thread about this that went total flame war about a month ago. opcorn:

Where have you been?

It's already been said.

And, since it's not true, the flames were ignited.

 

[Lewis]

I think you are forgetting a few aspects of disc golf, or you don't know them yet.

How very very wrong you are.

Let's just list a few different variables of a shot:
-Disc selection (HUGE): both necessary knowledge of the discs you have, the distances you can throw each, the lines you can shape them with, and the stabilities. Such as being able to throw your most understable disc on a hyzer line.
-Wind: Dramatically changes disc selection. Wind on a long open shot forces you to throw with tons of spin to keep the disc moving in the direction you sent it, and not where mother nature intended. Also changes the stability in which your disc acts (headwind will make more understable, tailwind more overstable)
-Landing: skip from a hyzer, soft land so you don't go into a hazard.
-Obstacles: There are MANY MANY more obstacles in dg than bg.
-OAT
-Release point
-Reachback amount
-Power
-Snap amount
-Shot type: bh or fh hyzer/anhyzer, thumber, tomahawk, bh or fh roller, + more but those are the most common.
-footing
-grip
-weight distribution
-Disc angle

There's probably more but I don't care to continue.

You're oversimplifying my already simplified analogy. Either you have misunderstood my point or you are intentionally misrepresenting it just for the sake of arguing. I stand by my claim that throwing a disc is an easier skill to develop than hitting a golf ball. Other posters in this thread have said the same.

Next time try not to take such a condescending tone. :thmbdown:

 

[Pink Elephant]

It depends. I found ball golf and disc golf equally easy. I obviously wasn't shooting par at either first try, but swinging a golf club is easy and so is throwing a disc. I've also seen 2 new disc golfers very recently struggle to throw over 100'. The first one was an athletic guy, the other was my Dad (who happens to swing a golf club well) and he is also athletic.

Maybe one is easier than the other for the majority, but I've recently seen proof that most people don't walk up and throw the disc 250' + first try. Making blanket statements on such a subjective thing is kind of silly anyway.

Edit: I noticed Lewis said develop so I don't have any other opinions other than my own case (equal difficulty) but I will be curious to see my Dad's development as he picks up all sports quickly.

 

[optidiscic]

Where I come from....Par 4s are commonplace. I think it's fine to use count it all as a three as a scorekeeping device if you are not familiar with the course. I would typically be 25+ over on my home course using this logic. I have used the par 3 in my head on an older woods course that happens to be par 54...and for that course we always keep it at par 3 even when one of the holes is in the longer par 4.....so I see the logic as long as everyone is on the same page. I would never expect anyone but locals to know the true pars of my home course.

Scorekeeping ..hey man do what you like as long as you don't say you shot a +13 (67 on a par 54) when in reality you shot a +13 (80 on a par 67) Just say you threw an 80. I really don't care what youre algebra is but just be honest with your score in the end.

However when your standing on the tee I think it's important to know what par is....as it gives some idea of what to expect from the hole for first timers....Nockamixon hole 10 comes to mind its a 821 foot wooded dogleg left with the sharp turn coming 300 feet off the tee followed by a 500+ foot alley carved through hardwoods to a boulder wall defended basket. I think it's foolish to mark it anything but a par 5 as this gives an indication of where you are in relation to the SSA (SSA was used to establish par and many holes were tweaked to get away from the2.5, 3.5 or 4.5 ranges so SSAs met closer to 3,4, and 5) regardless if I'm through the dogleg on 2 I feel as though I am doing ok as I have just a 450 foot alley of tights woods to conquer for par...If I somehow throw a miracle drive and land on the bend in 1 I am thinking possible birdie....On par 4 and 5 holes this feeling of what shot am I on and what is true par is lost if your thinking everything is a 3. I can count on one hand the number of Eagles at my home course during singles play. Eagles are so rare that there is an Eagle Pot for doubles instead of an ace pot.

In summary count in any way you want...just keep it to yourself. Actual Par is important to help aid play on real tougher courses. PA, DE, WV, and NY have many courses with par set well over 60...and knowing where you are scorewise in relation to each hole aids play.

I will also say that if disc golf seems easy to you that you need to move away from the beginner courses and use this site to find tougher courses. I have yet to consistently break par but I don't feel bad as I know I am playing some of the tougher courses ever created.

 

[optidiscic]

To those who insist on playing every hole as a three I can guarantee you will get nines on the par 6 holes at Quakers challenge and iron hill If you play for birdie or par you will play the hole more appropriately and score better. Par 4 and par 5 is about setting up your next shot trying to get a three on these ensures disaster. But hey go for it. The 1000 rated players will have either a good snicker or be annoyed as they try to help u find your disc