Intermediate questions about stability

[zbyrd]

I have been playing for a year and a half, but I've only gotten serious in the last few months. When I was getting into throwing RHFH, I drove mainly with a 173 Innova Roadrunner. This produced drives in the 250-275 range with lots of control. Like most players, as my play advances, I am growing more fond of overstable discs. I mostly throw a Beast or a Boss now in the 300-350 range. So my question...

In retrospect, I don't really see the advantage of understable discs. What are their uses other than rollers? I've always heard they are better for beginners, as was the case with myself, but why? What is their place in a more advanced player's bag?

 

[Ball-Z]

They Are good for anhyzer shots. I Have experimented a bit with throwing an understable, hard, on a big hyzer angle. The disc should (theoretically) leave your hand as a hyzer, become an anhyzer due to the power and spin, then finish as a slight hyzer when it runs out of steam. I've had it work a few times but I'm still learning too.

 

[scarpfish]

Understable discs can also be used in certain wind situations where use of an overstable disc will cause a more pronounced fade in the wrong direction or a premature drop. Here's a good article explaining it.

http://www.discraft.com/res_wind06_p1.html

 

[sidewinder22]

I prefer overstable discs forehand like my Star Xcal or Max as they are much more reliable. If I have a big tailwind with a dead straight shot, I will sometimes forehand hyzer-flip something understable like a Roadrunner, Monarch, or even my Teebird. You can also throw a big high annie forehand as long as its not a big headwind.

 

[trifocal]

For me (RHBH) a Roadrunner with a tail wind coming over my right shoulder is the perfect setup for a long straight drive. The longest drives I've had come in this situation and when I put the disc in what I call " The Sleeve of the Wind." Thats the place where the disc is moving horizontally thru the wind and not losing momentum fighting gravity in an effort to gain height. Like 10' off the ground on the flat. My Runners perform very well, almost like a surfer catching a wave. With a tail wind from the left, they tend to run out to the right, but on a glide and not a dive. So many discs....so many players.

 

[Jungle Tim]

The answer is really anhyzer preference, do you prefer to flip the disc up and over, or throw it anhyzer from the word go? In fact why not learn forehand and for get anhyzers all together?

The lines that you are able to throw vary depending on the disc, understable discs typically have higher glide values, this means that the will go further on low canopy shots, and lower powered shots. It is possible to get a disc to move 50ft right (rhbh) whatever you throw, but the airspace required is not always the airspace avaliable.

Personally i only carry 2 understable discs, sidewinder and a beat comet, just learn your discs and youll be fine. i also carry, Surge, Avenger, 3 teebirds, drone, buzzz, banger gt, aviar. These are all stable to overstable discs. But i often throw anhyzer teebirds rather than trying to turn a sidewinder over.

edit - i notice you thorw RHFH so that will make discs act more understable due to the extra torque you generate, tmaybe thats why the boss works so nicely for you. Grab a teebird, you wont regret it.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

understable discs can do things that a overstable disc in good shape just cant do and will give you more options than throwing an overstable backhand and forehand, so sometimes instead of having to lay it up or shoot a really long bird with an overstable you can matrix an understable into or around things you couldnt imagine until youve mastered anhyzers and learn how to put buttloads of spin on a disc.

btw the boss and the beast are both stable drivers .

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

jungle tims right get you a champ teebird thats a good overstable disc to cut your forehand teeth on and will keep on being a good choice no matter how long you play.

you can still throw crazy stupid anhyzers forehand its just takes alot more control since the margin of error as for as angle and spin goes is alot narrower, so just keep practicing and pay close attention to your angle before and after you release.

 

[trifocal]

^^^^ what he said. ^^^^

But/and..... lol..... I'm just learning a forehand and I see lots of uses for that throw.

The whole disc stability thing is mind boggling. I own a first run champion Boss, it happens to be green and I've found it very prone to two things. Fade very hard left or turnover and run outta sight right. Touchy disc. Its really too much for me. So I loaned it to a player much more experienced who was thinking about a Boss. He's played 5-6 rounds now with it and agrees with me....this particular Boss flips like crazy.

Butt loads of spin on an anhyzer......thats sounds right.

 

[zbyrd]

RHFH

Maybe it is just my roadrunner, but it seems like any annie will turn it into an unwanted roller. It is semi-new so it should be close to its factory specs. Is this because I am using too much spin or not enough? Will a lot of spin keep an understable disc from continuing to turn(encouraging its natural fade)? As of now, I just use my roadrunner (as well as a beat-the-hell up valk and eagle) to just throw low, straight, gliding shots, but I feel like they are capable of much more. Is that a good purpose for them or is another disc type better suited to low straight shots?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just trying to make my way through the confusing world of disc stability. On a related note, I hate when people think this sport is simply about throwing a frisbee.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

i would go to innova.com and look up the numbers if you havnt already. Im not sure but i think the roadrunner has a -4 turn rating which would make it almost useless except for rollers and anhyzers that dont come back and just slam into the ground.

 

[sidewinder22]

RHFH

Maybe it is just my roadrunner, but it seems like any annie will turn it into an unwanted roller. It is semi-new so it should be close to its factory specs. Is this because I am using too much spin or not enough? Will a lot of spin keep an understable disc from continuing to turn(encouraging its natural fade)? As of now, I just use my roadrunner (as well as a beat-the-hell up valk and eagle) to just throw low, straight, gliding shots, but I feel like they are capable of much more. Is that a good purpose for them or is another disc type better suited to low straight shots?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just trying to make my way through the confusing world of disc stability. On a related note, I hate when people think this sport is simply about throwing a frisbee.

You have to put a lot of hyzer angle on the release FH with the Roadrunner and not much arm torque, but flick it and it will hzyer flip straight or annie out.

 

[SomeChump]

I have lots of understable discs in my bag:

Beat DX Stingray
New Star Stingray
STAR TL
STAR Valkyrie
STAR Monarch

Some people would also consider my wraith and my groove understable, but at my arm speed that isn't quite true. I'm still pretty new, but here are the reasons I like having understable discs:

1) I'm a RHBH thrower. It is harder to throw overstable discs straight backhand than forehand.

2) Tailwinds.

3) Easier to throw turnover shots

4) Hold an anny line longer

5) Super sharp right RHBH throws (that beat stingray is great)

6) More tolerant of poor throws (the skill issue the OP brought up)

7) More distance-hyzer flips

8) Can throw with less power and still get a nice straight flight.

9) Less fade if there's trouble on the left at the end of your flight.

Players outgrow their "beginner discs" for two reasons: First they get better, and second, their discs just get beat-in. I thought I was just getting too "strong" for my valkyrie, but once I bought a new one (especially in a more stable plastic) I realized it was just right for me, just like the old DX one used to be.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

I have lots of understable discs in my bag:

Beat DX Stingray
New Star Stingray
STAR TL
STAR Valkyrie
STAR Monarch

Some people would also consider my wraith and my groove understable, but at my arm speed that isn't quite true. I'm still pretty new, but here are the reasons I like having understable discs:

1) I'm a RHBH thrower. It is harder to throw overstable discs straight backhand than forehand.

2) Tailwinds.

3) Easier to throw turnover shots

4) Hold an anny line longer

5) Super sharp right RHBH throws (that beat stingray is great)

6) More tolerant of poor throws (the skill issue the OP brought up)

7) More distance-hyzer flips

8) Can throw with less power and still get a nice straight flight.

9) Less fade if there's trouble on the left at the end of your flight.

Players outgrow their "beginner discs" for two reasons: First they get better, and second, their discs just get beat-in. I thought I was just getting too "strong" for my valkyrie, but once I bought a new one (especially in a more stable plastic) I realized it was just right for me, just like the old DX one used to be.

How beat in is yout TL? The TL is not generally considered understable but can be if it is beat. In general they are just plain stable.

 

[Squirrel Master]

My first go to driver was a dx stingray. It was strait as could be, till my snap and arm improved (and several trees later). I thought I could not control the flight path. It remained in my bag simply because I had room for it. Last week end I played a course I had never been to, it had some wicked dog leg right holes. I used the stingray RHBH and released it nearly vertical hyzered(about 10 to 20 degrees from vertical) , it traveled about 30' to 50' before it is completely horizontal then it just glides right. I was thrilled to have out driven a card full of great players. I guess my point is every disk can have a purpose if you practice different angles of release, winds, and slopes to know what the disk will do. I had to respond, it was the first thread or reply i have seen that someone mentioned the stingray. Highly under rated disk but I guess that is because they came out with so many great disk sense. I would recommend it to any new player.

 

[zenbot]

Generally understable discs work well up hills. If you're forced to throw nose up they don't hyzer out as quickly. This should maximize your distance up the hill

*1st BIRDIE POST*

 

[AdamE]

I think someone alluded to this already, but understable discs are great for gentle hyzer shots with lots of glide and little fade, especially ones where you come up short throwing an overstable disc. This is because overstable discs dive towards the ground and don't get as much distance. But if you throw a less stable disc with hyzer, it will flatten out some and glide gently to the left (LHBH) getting you more distance since it doesn't dive towards the ground.

And for big distance, throwing a slightly less stable disc with hyzer will allow it to flip flat and fly straight and possibly get a nice "S" curve in the flight which also increases distance.