Advanced Players: attacking tunnels ~250-300'

[aphilso1]

Hyzerflip gives the major advantage that the plane of release is more inline with lane of play. Think about it in vectors. Flat release require more precise release between left and right...factoring in a bit to much of either hyzer or anny and you are way off line.

Hyzer release tilt the vector of release making it less prone to miss left or right or turning to much to quick. Height can instead be more of an issue but you should be more often on the fairway

This is such a good post. :clap: I'm quoting it just so everyone gets a second chance to read it.

 

[jupiterboy]

Consider, too, that position of trees can make a gap bigger depending on which angle you come in at. I also have a bunch of local holes with very low ceilings, like < 6". I can often find an alternate gap to either side, but you need a disc with good ground action. I have a Blizzard Destoyer that will cover a bit of distance R to L (RHBH) after it kisses the ground. Kinda silly how many times I can use this to come in through the side entrance. (I'm not any big shakes experienced player, just my two cents)

 

[dmoore1998]

Hyzerflip gives the major advantage that the plane of release is more inline with lane of play. Think about it in vectors. Flat release require more precise release between left and right...factoring in a bit to much of either hyzer or anny and you are way off line.

Hyzer release tilt the vector of release making it less prone to miss left or right or turning to much to quick. Height can instead be more of an issue but you should be more often on the fairway

Assuming that you're equally confident in both, this works great. For me (and for a lot of others I see) the issue becomes that throwing flat, while potentially problematic in that I might have too much hyzer or anny, isn't problematic in determining what plane I INTEND to throw...flat. Hyzerflipping adds an additional level of variance. I have more room for error in the actual throw, because I can be slightly more or less hyzer and be ok if I'm hyzerflipping, but my problem is often that I don't know how much hyzer I INTEND to put on it (which means I may have more room for error being off on the throw itself, but I have more potential error for the plane I'm intending to throw).

My problem ends up that I'm much better at throwing the plane I want to (in this case flat) than I am in judging what hyzerflip plane I should be striving for. Maybe others don't have that issue nearly as much as I do though, it's probably one of the things I do the poorest, judging that hyzerflip angle correctly.

 

[Horsman]

one of the things I do the poorest, judging that hyzerflip angle correctly.

I feel like this feeling goes away the more you get comfortable and get to learn your discs.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

One of my local courses just put in a few alternate pins in for a few holes and one of them is similar to the hole described by OP, but it's maybe a 10' gap all the way down and a 15' ceiling.

 

[zenbot]

In my experience gaps are way easier to hit with hyzer release.

This all the way. I have a fairly beat in Viking that I release slightly hyzer right at the obstacles on the left and it rarely lets me down.

Especially with little overhead.

 

[dreadlock86]

it's probably one of the things I do the poorest, judging that hyzerflip angle correctly.

I feel like this feeling goes away the more you get comfortable and get to learn your discs.

true but i find it's more about my mental process during the throw. i had the habit of thinking about the line i wanted the disc to fly on, not the physicality of the throw and release angle. that used to (well, still does sometimes) lead me to rolling my wrist a bit, mentally anticipating the turnover.

 

[foxdawg10]

true but i find it's more about my mental process during the throw. i had the habit of thinking about the line i wanted the disc to fly on, not the physicality of the throw and release angle. that used to (well, still does sometimes) lead me to rolling my wrist a bit, mentally anticipating the turnover.

For me the hyzerflip throw is more of a feel than a mental thought process. The time to think and sort out that stuff is on the practice field. Playing with the release angle the right snap and release point. Once I am out on the course, i just grip it and rip it, visualizing the line I am trying to hit. At that point the body knows what to do.

 

[jakebake91]

I'm the wrong guy to answer this.

My shot is to smoke the first available 8/10 times

 

[Skervoy]

Assuming that you're equally confident in both, this works great. For me (and for a lot of others I see) the issue becomes that throwing flat, while potentially problematic in that I might have too much hyzer or anny, isn't problematic in determining what plane I INTEND to throw...flat. Hyzerflipping adds an additional level of variance. I have more room for error in the actual throw, because I can be slightly more or less hyzer and be ok if I'm hyzerflipping, but my problem is often that I don't know how much hyzer I INTEND to put on it (which means I may have more room for error being off on the throw itself, but I have more potential error for the plane I'm intending to throw).

My problem ends up that I'm much better at throwing the plane I want to (in this case flat) than I am in judging what hyzerflip plane I should be striving for. Maybe others don't have that issue nearly as much as I do though, it's probably one of the things I do the poorest, judging that hyzerflip angle correctly.

I think a lot of it is down to knowing your discs and a fair bit of practice but our local course has a lot of mandos and gap shots and by learning my DX Leopard and GL Flows hyzerflip angles has all but erased thoose problems.

But of course alot is down to the actual hole and what shot will fit best

 

[ray1970]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but when accuracy counts I almost always power down. For me, if I'm ripping something hard it can cost me a little accuracy. If I take a little off and slow the throw down it increases the likelihood that I'll hit my line.

Also, I will cheat and take the gap out of the equation whenever possible. It isn't always an option but if there's room to go over the top then that's my play and I don't have to worry about the tight shot.

 

[dmoore1998]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but when accuracy counts I almost always power down. For me, if I'm ripping something hard it can cost me a little accuracy. If I take a little off and slow the throw down it increases the likelihood that I'll hit my line.

Also, I will cheat and take the gap out of the equation whenever possible. It isn't always an option but if there's room to go over the top then that's my play and I don't have to worry about the tight shot.

Agreed, I've got a tunnel shot at my private course that's about 350. I could get a Buzzz there, but it'd be full power. I prefer to take a driver and not turn my head back as far, give it a 75% power shot and try to keep it straight that way. It may have a little more turn at the end than a midrange would, but I'm getting it at least 80% of the way there before I have to worry about that. With the Buzzz, there's a chance I'm going to full power it into a tree in the first 100 feet trying to rip it.

 

[Icarus]

For 250'-300', throw a high-glide, slightly understable/neutral mid on a mild hyzer flip (like a Mako3 or Buzzz). It is mathematically the most accurate shot left-to-right due to variation in throw (i.e. missing your intended line) being translated to the vertical plane. However, the "flip" part of the shot also usually cancels out some of the additional height variation you'd get from a pure hyzer line, resulting in what I believe is objectively the best normal tunnel shot shape in existence.

There are some people in my area that can do some wild stuff with thumbers, but that's a rather specialized skill.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

For 250'-300', throw a high-glide, slightly understable/neutral mid on a mild hyzer flip (like a Mako3 or Buzzz). It is mathematically the most accurate shot left-to-right due to variation in throw (i.e. missing your intended line) being translated to the vertical plane. However, the "flip" part of the shot also usually cancels out some of the additional height variation you'd get from a pure hyzer line, resulting in what I believe is objectively the best normal tunnel shot shape in existence.

There are some people in my area that can do some wild stuff with thumbers, but that's a rather specialized skill.

Not hating on thumber throwers, but I would consider a well executed hyzer-flip thru a tunnel a more "specialized skill" than chucking a thumber down the same path.

 

[Brychanus]

Hyzerflip gives the major advantage that the plane of release is more inline with lane of play. Think about it in vectors. Flat release require more precise release between left and right...factoring in a bit to much of either hyzer or anny and you are way off line.

Hyzer release tilt the vector of release making it less prone to miss left or right or turning to much to quick. Height can instead be more of an issue but you should be more often on the fairway

High glide mid ranges is the answer. You have to throw putters too hard and then it is hard to keep the height down and also get the glide you need to reach the basket.

First, know your miss. Plan your shot so that if you do mess up, you can mitigate the damage. Tunnel shots for me, I'd rather miss to the left side of the tunnel than the right side of the tunnel. If I'm in the sh!t, I do better with a forehand than a backhand and its easier for me to get out if I'm on the left. Because of this I will tend to select a disc that won't turn over too much.

For the actual shot. A hyzer flip is easier to keep on a straight line to me so I will tend to throw an understable mid on a hyzer and let it flip and ride from there.

Have any specific holes you could point us to an example?

This whole thread was super helpful (quotes just grabbed quickly summarizing some key points), returning for an update. Working on the hyzerflip mid/fairway game is helping a lot.

To GripEnemy's Q about a specific example. E.g., Sedgley Hole 12 remains one of my favorite examples. It's the one Simon Lizotte is playing at this time stamp. It's a little hard to tell, I think he's throwing a mid from the short tee there. His "I'm done with this hole" captures the sentiment of many players when they throw there. He hits tree A in the attached, which is the farthest away and on the left. Tree B is closer to the tee on the right.

When you're there in person, it's perceptually a strange hole, because the space in front of the tee seems somewhat large, but the effective line to the basket is pretty tight even from the short tee. It's within my range for a low glidey mid/fairway (uDisc puts the short tee at 272, DGC puts it at 309 but that may be the long basket. Out of curiosity I have to remember to have my friend check with his rangefinder).

The trees are arranged such that they saw off almost all lines other than a relatively pure tunnel shot to make it past the guardian trees A & B ~2/3 up the fairway. The tunnel ceiling is effectively low due to low hanging branches early off any of the tees. There's a sneaky/touchy RHFH or RHBH turnover gap high and to the left of tree A that is quite small w/scary miss potential when the trees are filled in.

After reading this thread I started throwing a max weight Comet on a hyzerflip on this hole. I aim directly at Tree A. If I don't shank it, it flips up, drifts right past Tree A pretty reliably during its turn phase, and then settles nicely on the ground headed more or less straight for the basket. If I miss slightly, usually I clip Tree A but the disc ends forward enough of Tree B that the layup for par is doable.

I have been slowly marching it up a few feet at a time and am now pretty consistently getting C2, but that putt distance plus the drop behind the basket/death putt has so far meant I get par at best (which frankly still feels great for me). However, the short tee basket is within Comet range, so at the moment I'm continuing to work on getting the controlled hyzerflip out further and further until I have decent C1 bids. The nice side effect is that my overall hyzerflip game is much more confident on holes where I have more room to breathe.

Let me know if you'd attack it differently.

Love y'all, keep hucking!

 

[blayed]

How do you feel about using FH for tunnel shots? Local 1000+ rated guy I am friends with swears by using FH for tunnels. Removes the psychological element of turning away and being able to look at the target the whole time. Also easier to keep it low if height comes into play. Definitely helped me out

 

[Skervoy]

Given I never saw IRL I would say my go to would be either my tursas or origin. Slight hyzerflip that stands up and drifts reliably. If I have a double mando closer to the tee I probably go something a bit more understable so I can release it on more hyzer.

Not that I always can execute it but I at least always try to figure out how I can avoid hitting early trees. So on this hole it looks like B is the early miss so I rather get a bit to much hyzer or to left.

 

[sidewinder22]

This whole thread was super helpful (quotes just grabbed quickly summarizing some key points), returning for an update. Working on the hyzerflip mid/fairway game is helping a lot.

To GripEnemy's Q about a specific example. E.g., Sedgley Hole 12 remains one of my favorite examples. It's the one Simon Lizotte is playing at this time stamp. It's a little hard to tell, I think he's throwing a mid from the short tee there. His "I'm done with this hole" captures the sentiment of many players when they throw there. He hits tree A in the attached, which is the farthest away and on the left. Tree B is closer to the tee on the right.

When you're there in person, it's perceptually a strange hole, because the space in front of the tee seems somewhat large, but the effective line to the basket is pretty tight even from the short tee. It's within my range for a low glidey mid/fairway (uDisc puts the short tee at 272, DGC puts it at 309 but that may be the long basket. Out of curiosity I have to remember to have my friend check with his rangefinder).

The trees are arranged such that they saw off almost all lines other than a relatively pure tunnel shot to make it past the guardian trees A & B ~2/3 up the fairway. The tunnel ceiling is effectively low due to low hanging branches early off any of the tees. There's a sneaky/touchy RHFH or RHBH turnover gap high and to the left of tree A that is quite small w/scary miss potential when the trees are filled in.

After reading this thread I started throwing a max weight Comet on a hyzerflip on this hole. I aim directly at Tree A. If I don't shank it, it flips up, drifts right past Tree A pretty reliably during its turn phase, and then settles nicely on the ground headed more or less straight for the basket. If I miss slightly, usually I clip Tree A but the disc ends forward enough of Tree B that the layup for par is doable.

I have been slowly marching it up a few feet at a time and am now pretty consistently getting C2, but that putt distance plus the drop behind the basket/death putt has so far meant I get par at best (which frankly still feels great for me). However, the short tee basket is within Comet range, so at the moment I'm continuing to work on getting the controlled hyzerflip out further and further until I have decent C1 bids. The nice side effect is that my overall hyzerflip game is much more confident on holes where I have more room to breathe.

Let me know if you'd attack it differently.

Love y'all, keep hucking!

I think Simon chose the right shot shape on that, little baby anhyzer. Looks like a harder gap angle to hit on hyzer flip, or FH or lefty hyzer.

 

[Brychanus]

I think Simon chose the right shot shape on that, little baby anhyzer. Looks like a harder gap angle to hit on hyzer flip, or FH or lefty hyzer.

So would you try e.g., more stable putter or mid and try to get a small flex that's starting to come back as the shot is clearing Tree A?

 

[sidewinder22]

Something like a stable Roc or Buzzz on slight anhyzer. I wouldn't really want it fade out, I want it just straight or even maintain slight anhyzer.