Lemon Lake and The Red ROC Disc Golf Club

[Bart]

Again, the OP's only input into this discussion is still....the club and owners don't get along. Upon being told that league need approval of the steward, why not initiate positive discussions to get the approval.

The owners of the park are the residents of Lake County...as stated in my previous post the 'calling 911' incident motivated me to meet with the parks department to find an equitable solution. We were told we could run leagues but again the toxic environment kept numbers low and it fizzled. Currently there is NO league play at Lemon Lake as their attempt at running leagues fizzled as well. Thankfully we've built a plethora of other courses so we had other venues and our league play is strong. #RedROCGrowstheSport.

And again lack of maintenance and an unfortunate 2100 tree culling has left the place a shambles....have you browsed the comments in the petition? I am far from a lone voice here.

 

[Noill]

Is there precedent for a petition like this doing anything?

 

[davetherocketguy]

The owners of the park are the residents of Lake County...as stated in my previous post the 'calling 911' incident motivated me to meet with the parks department to find an equitable solution. We were told we could run leagues but again the toxic environment kept numbers low and it fizzled. Currently there is NO league play at Lemon Lake as their attempt at running leagues fizzled as well. Thankfully we've built a plethora of other courses so we had other venues and our league play is strong. #RedROCGrowstheSport.

And again lack of maintenance and an unfortunate 2100 tree culling has left the place a shambles....have you browsed the comments in the petition? I am far from a lone voice here.

Lack of maintenance? I watched the some of the Masters coverage and from what I saw the course looked pretty good. Other than some muddy spots which can be attributed to the ridiculously wet winter/spring we've had around these parts.

If you're having such success elsewhere why focus on this place? Starting to wonder if there is more to the story...

-Dave

 

[Bart]

The courses at Lemon Lake are being poorly maintained according to the standards we set as a club. If you played in one of our Worlds (2010 and 2013) and played again in the Masters (2018) you would notice the deterioration. I played all 3 of these events.

You suspect more to the story...please ask here or privately..whatever you prefer...

 

[davetherocketguy]

...He agreed that Deb had over stepped her authority and the clause had nothing to do with us playing leagues there and promised to tell her to back off. The next time we ran leagues there we got 4 people....nobody wants to play in that toxic environment and leagues fizzled.

Aaaaaand from your petition:

They won't allow us to run leagues there (they called the police once when we tried) let alone tournaments.

Can you run leagues there or not? You say one thing in this thread and then another on the petition.

 

[Bart]

Have petitions worked in the past?

Probably not but the club agreed it was the proper avenue to pursue.

 

[Bart]

Aaaaaand from your petition:



Can you run leagues there or not? You say one thing in this thread and then another on the petition.

Again the interest died with the 911 event. I've since heard we need to sign a leagues agreement with either the Svitkos or the Parks department and I am waiting for a response from the parks department....

I have answered your questions now please answer this....have you browsed the comments in the petition?

 

[Noill]

Have petitions worked in the past?

Probably not but the club agreed it was the proper avenue to pursue.

I don't know of any either. Is there another avenue being considered or as part of this petition? I ask because I was thinking that once the petition is ready, you may try to hve a meeting with the Svitkos, etc to show them this first. Work toward a compromise with the goal of avoiding submitting the petition at all.

Get a diplomatic, cool-headed person to represent the club and see what can be fixed.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Again the interest died with the 911 event. I've since heard we need to sign a leagues agreement with either the Svitkos or the Parks department and I am waiting for a response from the parks department....

I have answered your questions now please answer this....have you browsed the comments in the petition?

I did. I still say you're wasting your time.

You know, I had a little revelation a number of years ago. See, I got really pissed off at the township that I live in because they wouldn't even consider installation of a park/disc golf area that I was proposing. In fact one jackwagon was rather condescending to me about it. Did I fight them? Did I try to push rope up a hill? Nope. There's another course in the area run by the county and the Einsteins who work there don't see the need for running PDGA tourneys or expand or improve the hopelessly outdated layout. I make suggestions now and then but it's like talking to a wall...Instead, I found a local course to pour my energies into. We now have a fantastic relationship with the local government and I'm starting to cut my teeth in running some tournaments all with a newly laid out course to be proud of. Instead of doing a crapload of complaining I want to be the one that shows everyone how its done...I'm not there yet but I am learning.

That's all I'm saying, some hills are not worth dying on and this sounds like one of them. It's time to pour your energies into another course. Do something positive. That's not what this petition is.

 

[Noill]

Not how I see it. They have moved forward with other courses and league venues... This feels like a redress of a local issue. RRDGC likely feels obligated.

 

[JC17393]

That's all I'm saying, some hills are not worth dying on and this sounds like one of them. It's time to pour your energies into another course. Do something positive. That's not what this petition is.

Words of wisdom, Dave.

Seems to me that if the place is poorly run and poorly maintained ("club standards" is a nebulous definition, BTW...I've been to plenty of courses that are praised for their maintenance that I don't find particularly well maintained but I have a high standard), the relationship between the parks department and the stewards of the course will fall apart of its own volition eventually. IMO, better to be poised and ready to step in to fill a void and save the day if/when it does than to be a (vocal) part of the perceived reason it failed via petitions and boycotts.

 

[ru4por]

The owners of the park are the residents of Lake County...as stated in my previous post the 'calling 911' incident motivated me to meet with the parks department to find an equitable solution. We were told we could run leagues but again the toxic environment kept numbers low and it fizzled. Currently there is NO league play at Lemon Lake as their attempt at running leagues fizzled as well. Thankfully we've built a plethora of other courses so we had other venues and our league play is strong. #RedROCGrowstheSport.

And again lack of maintenance and an unfortunate 2100 tree culling has left the place a shambles....have you browsed the comments in the petition? I am far from a lone voice here.

I have no doubt that you are not the lone dissenting voice, Bart. I understand the frustration on the part of anyone who spent time or money building LL into what it is. Calling the police sounds like it was in response to a club member going into the "office". Again, extreme patience and a professional approach would likely not resulted in the police call.

When I was there last year, the tree culling seemed to be primarily focused on Ash trees. Perhaps I am mistaken, but if this is true, the park service is doing the right thing by the ecosystem and the courses. I don't imagine the club would have had the resources to take down the dying Ash. It also kind of sounds like very expensive maintenance.

Man, I really do wish you the best, but rebuilding the relationship or walking away seem like the only sensible options. Fighting a fight that you have no chance to win, seems counterproductive.

 

[Bart]

I have no doubt that you are not the lone dissenting voice, Bart. I understand the frustration on the part of anyone who spent time or money building LL into what it is. Calling the police sounds like it was in response to a club member going into the "office". Again, extreme patience and a professional approach would likely not resulted in the police call.

The member walked into a public store (the flight center) and returned the flyer and made the comment I quoted....calling the police was a ploy to scare us...there was NO threat. This was also the 2nd time they've called the police on us....first time was right before the 2013 worlds when 2 of us Red ROCers were checking out the new white course and Jay and Deb accosted us on the course....I wish I had video of that encounter as we got threatened and literally screamed at...I do have video of the 2nd encounter.

When I was there last year, the tree culling seemed to be primarily focused on Ash trees. Perhaps I am mistaken, but if this is true, the park service is doing the right thing by the ecosystem and the courses. I don't imagine the club would have had the resources to take down the dying Ash. It also kind of sounds like very expensive maintenance.

The fella contracted to remove the trees was informed the parks dept would be planting new trees right behind him. He even arranged an 80 tree donation...all indigenous trees and this donation and the tree planting both never happened....and yes the Ash trees had to be removed. The red course requires a re-design as the short technical holes are just short wide open putter shots now.

 

[Bart]

Petition Comments

For ease of perusal I am posting all the comments from the petition (except for one that dropped the F bomb). 317 signatures as of this post.

DGuns20885 from Lex, KY
May 30, 2018
"Fix the wrong remove the non disc golfers and make this right"

Brandon Theriault from Racine, WI
May 30, 2018
"I have not been back to Lemon Lakes since the Svitko family took over with the exception being US Masters and i didnt support them in any way and will not support them in any way!! Red Roc DGC was forced out and the so called Indiana Disc Golf Museum doesn't even have the Indiana World Champion Brian Cummings in it who is also responsible for Lemon lakes being there!! This is a blatant case of money over what really matters and there are thousands who agree!!"

Todd C. Lewis from Traverse City, MI
May 29, 2018
"The Red Roc Club has always been very good to me and the sport. They have the knowledge, passion, and effort to Grow Disc Golf! Where would Lemon Lake be without them? Then kick them out from holding league and tourneys, just wrong! I'm with Red Roc! Todd Lewis PGDA# 22388"

Jim from Steger, IL
May 29, 2018
"I do this for all the labor this man has given. We love you Brian! Your accomplishments are in the dirt ! Stay humble!"

Chris bradley from Franklin, IN
May 29, 2018
"To much hard work its the right choice"

Marty Disc Golf King Proctor from Groveland, FL
May 28, 2018
"Sad that a fine, long standing organization like the PDGA cannot see through this obvious (yet pointless) power grab. Why doesn't the PDGA leadership ask the local pros and longstanding amateurs?"

ACIN Jason from FORT wayne, IN
May 28, 2018
"JAY AND DEB ARE RIP-OFF ARTISTS! THEY DON'T GROW THE SPORT"

James Laffey from Virginia Beach, VA
May 28, 2018
"The only reason I ever supported Lemon Lake was because of the hard work done by Red ROC Disc Golf Club. I volunteered for the 2013 Worlds and experienced, first hand, how badly people can be treated by Jay Svitko in his effort of a hostile takeover of Lemon Lake. People spent a lot of their own money and most importantly time and should be recognized rather than forced off the property."

Stephen Schrenk from Burns harbor, IN
May 28, 2018
"Give credit to the guys who put their sweat into something."

Andrew Buess from West Lafayette, IN
May 28, 2018
"The courses when I started playing disc golf and went to lemon lake (2012) were well kept and playable with plenty of signage now the gold course has no signs also if you go to a tournament up there the chances are you're going to get ripped off on payouts pdga minimums are not great and the disc prices are unfair"

Ben Houser from Hobart, IN
May 28, 2018
"The courses used to be well maintained. Right when jay and deb took over, you can be 5 feet from a basket and get but up from a copious amount of thorns. There's no fee signs, they've kicked out volunteers. Their payouts for tournaments are very lackluster and you can see online how bad their payouts are. They're destroying a beautiful championship disc golf course and must be stopped"

Ryan barcas from Joliet, IL
May 28, 2018
"Lemon lake was better taken care of by red roc disc golf club. As they were all about growing the sport not thier pocket book. Never will i step foot on lemon lake if jay and deb run it. The worst tournement i ever played was the homie last year when they had the red and blue course play same holes off of red course. Creating a 5 hole back up for each division that was playinv on 2 seprate courses"

Zachary Zandstra
May 28, 2018
"They've done a lot of awful things."

Ken hausser
May 28, 2018
"All comments and background are correct."

Sari Kennedy from Ypsilanti, MI
May 28, 2018
"This club and its beautiful courses made me feel at home as a Transplant from Ann Arbor. They deserve recognition."

john niemzyk
May 28, 2018
"When i visit my folks back in crown point, lemon lake disc golf is my favorite hobby. This is one of the best disc golfing areas i have ever been to. Without these guys the courses will quicly become over grown."

Peter Deutsch
May 28, 2018
"Get rid of the Svitkos!"

Patrick Pierie #7800 from Munster, IN
May 28, 2018
"The exclusion of Brian Cummings from the "Disc Golf Museum" created at The Lemon Lake pro shop speaks their to the manipulative nature of the Svitko's. How can you create a disc golf museum in northwest Indiana without mentioning the course designer and single most important person responsible for the installation of the four courses at Lemon Lake? Did I fail to mention this person has a 40 year history supporting disc golf in the region and is a member of the PDGA hall of fame? I realize there is only so much the PDGA can do to assist in removing the Svitko's The one thing they could do is stop awarding PDGA sanctioned events to Lemon Lake."

Brian Stessl from griffith, IN
May 28, 2018
"The Svitkos don't care about the little guy, casual players are all but ignored in the "flight center""


Jake toth
May 27, 2018
"They find discs that players have lost with there numbers. Dont call the number on it and sell them in their store."

Steve Vinyard
May 28, 2018
"You can witness the courses decline year after year"

Andy Siersema
May 27, 2018
"Lemon Lake is going down hill quickly. It needs to be run by the club who made it in the first place."

Cheryl james from Poplarville, MS
May 27, 2018
"On vacation I play"

Tyler Frew from Indianapolis, IN
May 27, 2018
"Red Roc has done so much for disc golf in Indiana. The Svitkos have done nothing to help. All they do is take from the sport and drive helpful people away."

 

[Bart]

Petition Comments 1.2

... the comments section was not big enough for all the petition comments.....here are the rest...
Robert Becker from Valparaiso, IN
May 27, 2018
"I'm signing this petition because I truly believe in it. I'm not affiliated with any disc golf groups but know most of the local players through tournaments and meeting on the course. I fell in love with the sport in college. During my summers we'd get a season pass to Lemon Lake for many reasons. What drew me and my friends/family to Lemon every weekend were dynamic courses of varying difficulties, new courses in constant development, and knowing there would be great players around constantly to share their knowledge and help grow the sport they love. Things that just don't happen when passion is taken out of the equation. The leadership for lack of a better word at Lemon had drastically dwindled since they pushed out those who built not only the courses but the sport in this region. Under the new leadership I have seen the quality of the current courses drop drastically due to poor maintenance.(well before the ash boor disease killed a bunch of trees) Courses that were planned to be built have completely haulted. The pro shop is ran by non-players of the sport who frankly don't have the passion it takes to lead a center of this caliber nor offer any meaningful advice. Because of this, I no longer purchase season passes and almost never play at Lemon anymore. I haven't boycotted playing there or anything of that nature but it just doesn't have the same appeal. Beyond the quality of the courses, there has been a big rift in the disc golf community in this region after Red ROC was pushed out. Some players boycotted playing there because they were so hurt by the actions that forced out Red ROC and their members and volunteers. Which is ultimately the worst thing that could happen to the sport. Was there anywhere else growing the sport better than Red ROC in the years just before they were forced out? I'm not sure but I'd imagine not or you'd probably have world's elsewhere more frequently. The decision I hope is an easy one for the PDGA. Restore RedROC and allow them to do what they do best and that's creating the best disc golf community probably anywhere. If things don't change around here a few things will be certain. The sport will not grow as fast, player development won't be as strong, courses will be unkept and over grown and you won't have new beautiful courses like the Gold course popping up out of nowhere. For the sake of the sport, I ask the PDGA to please partner with Red Roc. My apologies for writing this on my mobile. Please look beyond my mistakes in organization and grammar and listen to the underlying message. Thank you, Rob"


Adam Cofer from Crown Point, IN
May 27, 2018
"#45457 I will never play another event where Jay and Deb are hosting/or invovled with Their continuous lies and deceitfulness has made the decision easy for many others. Lemon Lake WAS a great complex until they got it into their greedy hands. I hope that something can be done."

Matt Marckese from Valparaiso, IN
May 27, 2018
"20880"

Eric Summers from Merrillville, IN
May 27, 2018
"The red roc disc golf club are the true ambasadors to the sport of dg in northwest indiana and they deserve to be reckognized by the PDGA for all the hard work they've put into lemon lake. The svitkos have ran the place into the geound. They only have their own greedy pursuits in mind and are hardly accountable when confronted with thier grewdy tactics, i.e. selling used discs against players wishes, over charging for park entry and mismanagement of tournament payouts. Their reign of ruining one of northwest indianas gteast disc golf achievements needs to be over."

Brian Holliday from Calumet, IL
May 27, 2018
"Jay svitco is a friend of mine but there are a lot of people that are not happy with the current situation at lemon lake disc golf complex and the direction its going moving forward. I'm signing this petition in hopes of a positive solution"

Steven Vincent from Kalamazoo, MI
May 27, 2018
"Jay and Deb are not what the PDGA needs nor wants to represent them. Not the ambassadors they promote themselves to be."

Anthony garza #69499 from Chicago hts, IL
May 27, 2018

Aaron Hill #43725
May 27, 2018

Jeremy Geiger from kokomo, IN
May 27, 2018
"change is needed i refuse to play any events ran by jay and deb. I feel if new leadership was put into place great things could happen at lemmon lake."

Steven Vincent from Kalamazoo, MI
May 27, 2018
"Jay and Deb are not what the PDGA needs nor wants to represent them. Not the ambassadors they promote themselves to be."

David Bundy from Crown Point, IL
May 27, 2018
"I actually volunteered at Lemon from 1999 to 2013. I live 5 minutes from Lemon Lake and it USED to be home course. It used to be my pride and joy, I will not play in any event involving Jay and Deb. They tell out right lies about the Red Roc club to anyone who will listen. They have rewrote the history of how Lemon Lake was built. The PDGA's commentary/press release I read concerning the US Masters at Lemon is full of untruthful made up statements. It's as if Jay and Deb worte the press release themselves. The PDGA is better than this. The PDGA needs to reconsider thier involvement with Jay and Deb up and Lemon Lake."

Brett Lakin from Valpo, IN
May 27, 2018
"I concur"

Greg Davis #18598 from Rensselaer, IN
May 27, 2018
"This is long over due. The Svitkos are not good for this game or for a place I live 39 minutes from and haven't played since worlds."

Rob Barry from Woodridge, IL
May 27, 2018
"Lemon lake was once picture perfect everywhere, tee signs marked, benches, water had a plave to flow and not create massive lakes in the middle of the fairway. Svitkos dont give a damn about what they have, they reek the benefits from what Red Rock started years ago. Remove them and there god awful diarrhea chili for good."

Alan Hazelwood from Cicero, IN
May 27, 2018
"What a shame, that this great disc golf complex can not be enjoyed by Indiana disc golfers, because of the injustice of the Svitkos. I will never play there again, and will never support the Svitkos or a PDGA event at this complex, while this injustice continues. Missed the Tim Selinske Masters due to this. The Svitkos have only one agenda, and that is self promotion, not growing the sport. Sad and mad!!! "

tom woods from brookston, IN
May 27, 2018
"this once wonderfull disc golf vessel has been hijacked by folks who don't do the right things, RED ROC deserves their complex back, out with the pirates and back to those who worked so hard to build it , and did things the right way. also hope April moves on too, shes on the wrong side of the fence, which I could never understand how she got there in the first place."

David Eberhardt from Midlothian, IL
May 27, 2018
"They suffer from a terrible case of cognitive dissonance"

Mike Mavrick from Denver, IN
May 27, 2018
"Red Roc Disc Golf Club Built Lemon Lake"

Clayton from Chicago, IL
May 27, 2018
"Grow the sport!!"

Robert (WFBob) Walsh
May 27, 2018
"Current ,PDGA Member since 1989"

Dustin gibbon from Wheatfield, IN
May 27, 2018
"Let the respect be where it is due."

Brian Kidder
May 27, 2018
"It really is a shame what has happened to Lemon Lake. Red Roc built those courses and they are a shell of what they once were."

Ryan Butler
May 26, 2018
"Lemon Lake was one of the greatest places I ever played. Each one of the courses there are legendary in their own ways. This place, and the many disc golfers who cherish it, do not deserve to see it run down and neglected. Not to mention the rest of the atrocious behavior from the two people responsible for the unfortunate decline at this historic park. There's no room for injustice in this sport. SAVE LEMON LAKE!!!"

Erika Foo
May 26, 2018
"I haven't played Lemon Lake in years due to negative interactions with the Svitkos. It would be nice to play those courses but I refuse to give them my money."

Chris Dehaan #13911 from Hanover Park, IL
May 26, 2018
"Brian and the Red Rock Club deserve the credit for everything Disc Golf in NW Indiana, and Oly. Their original intentions were to grow the sport, make awesome courses, and have the best run events. Let Brian and the boys bring that back!!"

Ryan Zakutansky from Hobart, IN
May 26, 2018
"I proudly support this effort to end the madness at Lemon Lake. I am a proud member of the Red Roc Disc Golf club and hope this effort is heard by the PDGA."

Ryan Weeks from Indianapolis, IN
May 26, 2018
"Shame on You PDGA! Know your product. Help this club so they can serve the community!"

Tommy miller from eaton, IN
May 26, 2018
"It is interesting to me that the pdga keeps casting their lot with Deb and Jay. This isn't some hidden thing. I won't play there again until Deb and Jay are gone."

Bradley charles from Plainfield, IN
May 26, 2018
"The svitkos can be very rude and are only in the sport for money."

Mike Thompson
May 26, 2018
"Red Roc disc golf club deserves the right to run lemon!"

Leo Borowski from Lockport, IL
May 26, 2018
"After playing this sport for over 30 years and being a member of the pdga since 1989 I have seen and attended many tournaments. in all those years jay and deb svitkos tournaments are the worst run and do not represent the standards of the pdga. They are not there to Grow the sport, there sole purpose is to enrich there pockets off the backs of every day disc golfers. They have taken credit for work that was not there own . they have cheated players out of there winning including myself. they turned a memorial tournament for a fallen disc golfer into an a tier to feed there pockets. they do not represent the disc golf community and the standards set forth by the pdga to grow our sport..in my 30 years of playing I have to say they are the worst representation of disc golf I have ever seen and will boycott every event there while they are in control. I support this petition to the fullest......Leo B #5275"

 

[Bart]

and...had to split the comments again....

Anthony Stahl from Crown point, IN
May 26, 2018
"Deb and Jay Svitko are the opposite of what disc golf represents to me. They do not deserve Lemon Lake or their pro shop. The Red Roc DG Club are the reason that the Lemon Lake disc golf courses exist. Without the RRDGC running and working on the Lemon Lake disc golf courses they arent any better than when they basically kicked Red Roc out. With Red Roc back in charge of Lemon Lake the possibilities are endless."

Brandon Zakutansky
May 26, 2018
"Too much hard work went on by too many volunteers to see the courses in the shape they are in now. These courses need a club that will truely take pride in the courses."

Lee Nusbaum
May 26, 2018
"This is where i played my first ever pdga tournament and allot more to follow that until everything got ruined. please help"

Sean Mullane
May 26, 2018
"The condition of the courses has severely gone downhill since the svitkos took over. So bad that i havent played there in over a year. Last time i did the grass on a few courses was almost shin high in the middle of fairways. Not to mention the erosion issues that forced them to remove multiple holes, after being warned about it. Also used to go into the pro shop just to look for my lost discs which i have found for sale on the used disc rack more than once with my name and number clearly on them. I used to buy a season pass or pay gate fee and play there a couple times a week minimum for years. I refuse to back until something changes. Its sad to see what used to be an amazing disc golf destination so close to home deteriorate so quickly"

[email protected] from terre haute, IN
May 26, 2018
"47802"

ROBERT SPARKS from DAVIE, FL
May 26, 2018
"I RELOCATED TO FLORIDA 3 YEARS AGO BUT PRIOR TO THAT WAS A FREQUENT PLAYER AT LEMO. LAKE AND WAS AWARE OF THE MONUMENTAL EFFORTS PUT FORTB BY RED ROC PLEASE HELP THEM RETURN THE INTEGRITY TO LEMON LAKE DISC GOLF... ROBERT SPARKY SPARKS PDGA 6473..."

Bill Sherman from Santa Clara, CA
May 26, 2018
"I went and played this park for years! The (newer management) really messed this place up! You should let the RedRock Disc Golf club run it again. Bring it back to its glory!!"

David gallagher
May 26, 2018
"Let the club that built and maintain the course run it!"

Joshua Hynek from Crown Point, IN
May 26, 2018
"Waaay past due!"

 

[DavidSauls]

I still don't understand the PDGA's involvement, or how the PDGA can turn the course over to the club.

Is the $5,000 grant an annual thing, or a one-time grant? How much does the designation of Midwest Development make a difference?

Or did the PDGA sign an agreement with the parks department to control the course, and then designate the Svitkos to run it?

I'm sure I'm missing something, but almost everything here---including the petition, and the comments on it---seems like it should be directed at the parks department. Or is the theory that if the PDGA were to pull its "Midwest Development" designation, that that would change the parks department's position?

 

[Bart]

One problem is defining what a PDGA Develpoment Center is....so far I have not been able to find that it has any requirements other than existing. I'm sure if you are the boss and 'Grow the Sport' is the mantra, adding a 4 course disc golf complex is quite the feather in your cap. Seems the title was created with out so much as a guideline although I am still researching.

The petition will eventually be submitted to the PDGA Director and the Parks Department.

and while I was out for lunch these 2 new comments came to our petition...

Connor Klingbeil from Chesterton, IN
May 30, 2018
"I've seen discs for sale in their shop with my name on them. I've seen people lose money in tournaments because they wanted their son to look better. Jay and Deb have no business hosting PDGA events. Please stop enabling them."

BZ-Background story...dubs tournament...Deb's son and his partner go play another round after the final round without turning in their scorecard. 2 hours pass and they would not have hung on to their second place with the mandatory 2 stroke penalty. It was reported by 2 friends of mine that took first place. No penalty was assigned. One of the competitors wrote the PDGA competition committee and did not even get a response....I'm not naming the guys by request but I can tell you that one of them is a former world champion.
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Steven Storrie from Carrollton, TX
May 30, 2018
"I have never been so disrespected before in my life. I was kicked off of the property before I could even get out of the vehicle. There was no discussion, there was only Deb yelling at me, banging on my windows, and repeatedly telling me I can't be on the property with an RV because it had a certain manufacturers vehicle wrap on it. Most unprofessional and disrespectful people. It only takes once when you act like a complete child. I've never played Lemon Lake, and I never will. I am appalled the PDGA supports this establishment."

-BZ-Background story- I believe this is the gentleman that was driving the Dynamic Discs rig and even though they had sponsored the Worlds were not allowed to even park their rig on park property let alone vend....

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Let's assume everything you say, Bart, is true. You're still much more insufferable than the Svitkos. At this point, based upon your approach, they're the lesser of two evils. You're coming across as a one-man complaint box. If your cause is truly the right one, you can't be the face of it. Someone who is more sociable, p.r.-savvy, and tactful needs to be heading up your campaign. That said, we still haven't heard anyone else even halfway support your cause. You've yet to give any insight how an attack approach is going to smooth relationships between you and the Svitkos.

 

[Bart]

That said, we still haven't heard anyone else even halfway support your cause. .

Did you read the testimonials I posted above from the petition?