Newbie disc weight question!

[Rickcin]

This is what I have to say about disc weights.....my opinion, but based on using different weight discs.
1. Most videos discussing disc weights are by pro discers that can throw a 180 gram disc at 60 plus MPH. Like the disc should be thrown. They aren't going to see the difference those of us who throw slower see. Maybe the lighter disc flips for them = but they won't see a big difference since they can throw a disc the way it should be thrown.
2. I throw 42ish MPH (based on hand held radar gun). If I throw a 172 Kastaplast Falk (9 speed), it flies about 255 and takes a hard left fade (I'm RHBH). If I throw a 165 Falk, it flies about 280 and has a slight left fade. Total difference. And that was when I was first working on my backhand form with my instructor - I'm getting more distance now.

I now throw 160-165 8 and 9 speeds, 150-160 10 and 11 speeds, and I have a 137 gram 12 speed.

I have 3 MVP Waves (11 speed): one is 174, one 169, and one is 157. I also have MVP Volts (8 speed) in different weights. I test all my differnt weights in a field every two or three months. With the Waves; the 157 one goes the furthest for me and flies closest to the numbers. BUT, in a decent wind, I won't throw the disc as the wind will affect it too much. The 169 disc and 174 disc don't go as far as the 157 one and they fade harder; with the 174 one crashing the hardest.

So take that as you will, but my experience shows weight does make a difference when you have a slow arm speed.

Definitely helpful and interesting and wish I realized how weight would impact my throws prior to purchasing at least a dozen discs. Since weigh does make a difference for those of us who cannot throw with the preferred speed, it might be best to throw a lighter disk when driving and the heavier ones when we are closer to the basket.
It seems that most posters here recommend weights in the 145 to 150g range. Anything lighter would less predictable so I should probably order a Pro Leopard at 147g which I believe to be a 6 speed and try that out as my driver, however I'm always open to other opinions!

 

[Sheep]

Definitely helpful and interesting and wish I realized how weight would impact my throws prior to purchasing at least a dozen discs. Since weigh does make a difference for those of us who cannot throw with the preferred speed, it might be best to throw a lighter disk when driving and the heavier ones when we are closer to the basket.
It seems that most posters here recommend weights in the 145 to 150g range. Anything lighter would less predictable so I should probably order a Pro Leopard at 147g which I believe to be a 6 speed and try that out as my driver, however I'm always open to other opinions!

130 stuff is insanely funny to throw, even for a lot of newbies.

165 seems to be a good sweet spot if you ask me though.
My stuff that is the 160-165 stuff just always does what i want.
My 158 stuff is pretty reliable also.

I'm more likely to hyzer shank some of my max weight stuff.

 

[Nick Pacific]

 

[Sheep]

iew prodegy.

 

[Sewer bill]

I don't really use YouTube for scientific research.

You're missing out.

 

[Sheep]

You're missing out.

The best part is people who argue about this and that with disc golf because some disc golf youtuber just makes things up on their channel, when there are actual video's that talk about the actual physics of how spinning objects work and stabilize and all these other things about wing shapes, flight, lift, and..

People all like "Yeah, I watched Robby C (random name) on youtube, and he said this, so you're wrong!"
And then they all like "yeah, Slingshot said this too, so you're random theories don't matter."

When there is 100's of video's that talk about applied physics and flight dynamics that say otherwise.

Just like earlier in this thread "oh these disc golf personalities say!"

okay. GG.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Without getting too personal, how old are you? Disc weight recommendations really come down to the very young, the moderately senior aged players, and those with injuries or damage to their throwing ability where lighter weights will assist some in overcoming very slow arm speeds. Taking a max weight neutral low speed disc (Leopard, Buzzz, Fuse are great examples) and learning how to keep the nose down and throw those discs laser straight will do more for you than attempting to get more distance by changing weights. There is so little difference between a 175g disc and a 150g disc that the distance results are extremely marginal under perfect conditions. I throw max weight molds of the same disc farther than the lighter weight versions, and have more control. Just starting out and not having instant distance is frustrating, we've all been there. A lot of people on here made the mistake of throwing the wrong discs, super overstable discs, distance drivers, or with poor force over flex rounded form to try and get that extra distance right away. And it hindered development by creating really bad form. These are the people you will see continually saying start with slow speed discs and learn to control them, then slowly move up. I have several friends in their 50's that throw over 300 feet with putters. At the end of the day, lighter disc weight makes the disc easier to get up to speed and much harder to control and nets very little, if any, true gain in distance. There are several great videos on YouTube where disc weight is tested to see if there is any true gain, and all of them show it's a wash.

Disagree strongly. I am 54, playing 5 months, and I throw my 148-150g Terns 265' max with decent control. With 175g discs, there is no disc I can get over 225' max. My average throw variation is probably about the same - 40' more with the light weight drivers, with no worse control (as long as there is little to no wind). The lighter drivers allow me to get a bit more arm speed, and at my arm speed, they carry further than a heavier disc. They do not cause my form to be any worse. If anything, they might require a bit better form to control them, so they help me - force me to have good form. Regardless, I have a lot more fun playing when I use them, I get more distance, and I still work consistently on improving my form, technique, knowledge of the game, etc.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Disagree strongly. I am 54, playing 5 months, and I throw my 148-150g Terns 265' max with decent control. With 175g discs, there is no disc I can get over 225' max. My average throw variation is probably about the same - 40' more with the light weight drivers, with no worse control (as long as there is little to no wind). The lighter drivers allow me to get a bit more arm speed, and at my arm speed, they carry further than a heavier disc. They do not cause my form to be any worse. If anything, they might require a bit better form to control them, so they help me - force me to have good form. Regardless, I have a lot more fun playing when I use them, I get more distance, and I still work consistently on improving my form, technique, knowledge of the game, etc.

Disc weight recommendations really come down to the very young, the moderately senior aged players, and those with injuries or damage to their throwing ability where lighter weights will assist some in overcoming very slow arm speeds.

Perhaps you missed my second line, so I quoted it for you again. You are no spry chicken as neither am I. You fall squarely in the category of people I would consider who BENEFIT from lighter discs, and I assume you have been playing long enough to have gotten rid of your beginner form issues. The very first question I asked the OP was their age so that I could give age specific advice. A new player in their teens, a new player in their 20's-30's, and a new player 50 plus would all get different advice. A person throwing 100-150 max who is just starting out in the game isn't going to magically "fix" themselves by throwing light weight plastic. As I have said from the beginning, you do you, this game is fun, and do what is fun for you. We all have different games, arm speeds, live at different elevations, and different ways of hucking the disc down the fairway. And we all have different ways of getting to point B from point A. I'm not going to hand a brand new player a 135g Destroyer as their first disc. I'm also not going to hand them a 175g Firebird. There is also a big distinction in what people refer to as "lightweight". Those 160-169g discs are "lighter" weight to me, and those 150-159 are probably coming up on the "lightweight, easy to throw" area. Below 150 super class discs are definitely "lightweight" to me. I was never advocating for max weight distance drivers (I would never advocate for a true beginner to be hucking distance drivers from the start anyways). I was saying lightweight putters and mids from the start is a waste of money. Depending on age and arm speed, they'd quickly outgrow them. If someone has to throw a 135g Tern in order to get past 200 feet that's great, keep slinging them discs. I would question them robbing themselves of distance by throwing a higher speed disc and test that out too, seeing if maybe a 150g Valk went the same distance or farther for them, or maybe even a T-Bird. Maybe it the exact disc and weight they need, maybe it's too much disc. As an aside note, I play at sea level in a naturally windy area and most ultra lightweight discs for me are unthrowably flippy. That doesn't mean for someone at a higher elevation in less windy conditions with less arm speed won't benefit from them. My 75 year old friends father plays with us weekly now (started throwing this summer) and he's finally breaking 200 feet with a 170g Vandal. It holds up in the wind for him and his 130-140 distance drivers were not. However when we played at 7'700 feet of elevation the Vandal was dumb overstable for him and he reverted to a Diamond at 158g that netted similar results as his Vandal at sea level. I swapped out my 171g distance drivers for the same molds at 160g and got the same flight at that elevation. Age, arm speed, flexibility, elevation, and wind play a huge factor. Lightweight discs aren't always the answer just as much as I wouldn't recommend everyone bag max weight discs either, without taking into consideration the players limitations.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Disc weight recommendations really come down to the very young, the moderately senior aged players, and those with injuries or damage to their throwing ability where lighter weights will assist some in overcoming very slow arm speeds.

Perhaps you missed my second line, so I quoted it for you again. You are no spry chicken as neither am I. You fall squarely in the category of people I would consider who BENEFIT from lighter discs, and I assume you have been playing long enough to have gotten rid of your beginner form issues. The very first question I asked the OP was their age so that I could give age specific advice. A new player in their teens, a new player in their 20's-30's, and a new player 50 plus would all get different advice. A person throwing 100-150 max who is just starting out in the game isn't going to magically "fix" themselves by throwing light weight plastic. As I have said from the beginning, you do you, this game is fun, and do what is fun for you. We all have different games, arm speeds, live at different elevations, and different ways of hucking the disc down the fairway. And we all have different ways of getting to point B from point A. I'm not going to hand a brand new player a 135g Destroyer as their first disc. I'm also not going to hand them a 175g Firebird. There is also a big distinction in what people refer to as "lightweight". Those 160-169g discs are "lighter" weight to me, and those 150-159 are probably coming up on the "lightweight, easy to throw" area. Below 150 super class discs are definitely "lightweight" to me. I was never advocating for max weight distance drivers (I would never advocate for a true beginner to be hucking distance drivers from the start anyways). I was saying lightweight putters and mids from the start is a waste of money. Depending on age and arm speed, they'd quickly outgrow them. If someone has to throw a 135g Tern in order to get past 200 feet that's great, keep slinging them discs. I would question them robbing themselves of distance by throwing a higher speed disc and test that out too, seeing if maybe a 150g Valk went the same distance or farther for them, or maybe even a T-Bird. Maybe it the exact disc and weight they need, maybe it's too much disc. As an aside note, I play at sea level in a naturally windy area and most ultra lightweight discs for me are unthrowably flippy. That doesn't mean for someone at a higher elevation in less windy conditions with less arm speed won't benefit from them. My 75 year old friends father plays with us weekly now (started throwing this summer) and he's finally breaking 200 feet with a 170g Vandal. It holds up in the wind for him and his 130-140 distance drivers were not. However when we played at 7'700 feet of elevation the Vandal was dumb overstable for him and he reverted to a Diamond at 158g that netted similar results as his Vandal at sea level. I swapped out my 171g distance drivers for the same molds at 160g and got the same flight at that elevation. Age, arm speed, flexibility, elevation, and wind play a huge factor. Lightweight discs aren't always the answer just as much as I wouldn't recommend everyone bag max weight discs either, without taking into consideration the players limitations.

I have been playing 5 months, and still endlessly work on improving form. I also have a 150g Valkyrie. I like it, but not as much distance as my Terns that I throw equally well. I use it very well on a 225' hole. 145-150g gram seems to be the formula for me with distance drivers. Putters I like max weight. I do decent with a 145-150g Katana and a Shryke, and while they edge out my Terns for distance, at least so far I am not quite as consistent with them. I fully expect to eventually get to 300' and maybe beyond that, and I may eventually want heavier discs, but these 145-150g distance drivers are fun and work great for me.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

5 months is still pretty new to the game and I expect, even in your mid 50's, you still have quite a bit of arm speed improvement coming. Probably not gaudy mph increases, but enough that discs will begin to behave differently. If you are maxing out near 265 as you stated earlier, 300 feet is a realistic and achievable goal. Especially if you continue to do some form work and flexibility drills over the winter. Good luck on your disc golf journey.

 

[Kennets]

Max weight destroyers baby!

On more serious note - I haven't played too much around with lightweight discs, I bag a few 16x discs and one D1 air (can't remember the weight). My D1 serves my BH well, but I'm having a hard time throwing it with any wind.

Serious questions (and mind my English here, it isn't my first language). If ChrisinFL (using you as an example buddy) were to throw 2 identical shots, exact same speed, flight etc - one being a lightweight distance driver and the other being a "normal" weight distance driver, which one would go the furthest? Would there be any noticeable difference at all? Does it all come down to personal preference?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Serious questions (and mind my English here, it isn't my first language). If ChrisinFL (using you as an example buddy) were to throw 2 identical shots, exact same speed, flight etc - one being a lightweight distance driver and the other being a "normal" weight distance driver, which one would go the furthest? Would there be any noticeable difference at all? Does it all come down to personal preference?

Two identical discs 20 grams apart in weight thrown by a person who can perfectly recreate their shot twice in a row should, on average, see between a 5 and 6 mph initial arm speed release velocity increase (according to a couple different low budget data collection studies) Some players will gain more, some less. Which would normally average around 35 ish feet of potential distance gain. Most people, at some level agree with that premise.

The problem comes from that "potential" energy and increased velocity translating to actual measurable distance increase. Stability of the disc, rim width, wind, elevation, more or less "snap", spin rate, height are all going to come into play. If all conditions are exactly the same for both throws, there is still a possibility that the potential energy from the lighter, now faster and more spin disc will transfer its energy early in the flight into turning the disc over beyond flat plain decreasing it's lift and thus glide potential. There is a chance the light weight disc doesn't have the mass to continue pushing forward at the end of it's flight as it slows down and gets to ground faster. There is a chance the max weight disc never gets up to speed and crashes out early. In a perfect world, where the exact throw can be repeated on demand, the lighter weight disc "should" provide the opportunity to fly farther, up to a certain point. Think throwing a bowling ball, baseball, tennis ball, and wiffle ball for distance. There is a "sweet spot" for potential distance. There is also a negative distance potential at a certain point both above "sweet spot" weight and below it. Everyone's is different and that's why I call it a wash. Some get better control with heavier discs, some with lighter. Some get more distance with closer to max weight discs, some with extremely lightweight discs. What's right for you might not be right for the next person. A force over flex player (even at the pro level like Nikko) will get very different results from lighter discs than a hyzer flip player (like Isaac Robinson). One may struggle with them and prefer heavier discs while the other may thrive with being able to shape lighter discs better.

 

[Kennets]

Thank you for the in-depth answer, I appreciate it! My conclusion is that for us mere mortals, it doesn't really have THAT much of an impact and it's personal preference.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Max weight destroyers baby!

On more serious note - I haven't played too much around with lightweight discs, I bag a few 16x discs and one D1 air (can't remember the weight). My D1 serves my BH well, but I'm having a hard time throwing it with any wind.

Serious questions (and mind my English here, it isn't my first language). If ChrisinFL (using you as an example buddy) were to throw 2 identical shots, exact same speed, flight etc - one being a lightweight distance driver and the other being a "normal" weight distance driver, which one would go the furthest? Would there be any noticeable difference at all? Does it all come down to personal preference?

I can tell you at my arm speed, probably about a 7, I can throw a bit faster and further with light weight discs. For example, I have two max weight (170+) Valkyries, and I have a 145-150g one. The 150g gives me a gentle S-curve flight and 225' smooth and easy. The max weight ones I have to throw hard, they go fairly straight (no turn), then usually fade left, probably about 200' max. Sometimes they will dump left earlier and harder if I don't throw them great - the 150g never does that. The 150g, my bigger concern is keeping good form, good release, so it doesn't turn too much on me - sometimes it will turn for almost the entire flight, but so far it doesn't flip over on me. My 145-150g Terns max about 265', and a Shryke and Katana similar, but average a little more distance than the Terns. If I throw any of them in max weight, they will almost for sure dump hard left early. Think meat hook early. I agree with Muppet's last post - most agree light weight equals more speed at release, which equals more distance under the right circumstances. Little to no wind, a little less arm speed, and light weight discs will go faster and further. For someone throwing 400' plus, I doubt very much a light weight disc helps them - probably flips over into the ground/roller, or fades out sooner than a max weight disc. Maybe throwing 300-350' is about where gains from light weight distance drivers start to go away? Bowling ball/baseball/tennis ball/whiffle ball is a great, obviously exaggerated, way to think of disc weight. It takes a lot of power to throw the bowling ball the furthest. Most adults can throw a baseball further than either a bowling ball or a whiffle ball, but a 5 year old might throw their furthest with tennis balls or whiffle balls. I just can't stand people saying throw only max weight, work on your form. Ugh. My sweet spot for distance drivers right now is 145-150g. Lighter than that gets too much like a whiffle ball. Heavier gets towards a bowling ball. Fairway drivers I can go heavier, but I won't get nearly the distance I get with my 145-150g Terns, etc.

 

[ChrisinFL]

5 months is still pretty new to the game and I expect, even in your mid 50's, you still have quite a bit of arm speed improvement coming. Probably not gaudy mph increases, but enough that discs will begin to behave differently. If you are maxing out near 265 as you stated earlier, 300 feet is a realistic and achievable goal. Especially if you continue to do some form work and flexibility drills over the winter. Good luck on your disc golf journey.

I am in Florida - winter will be the best playing of the year! Nice outside - finally starting to cool off now - let's go!

 

[discerdoo]

I can tell you at my arm speed, probably about a 7, I can throw a bit faster and further with light weight discs. For example, I have two max weight (170+) Valkyries, and I have a 145-150g one. The 150g gives me a gentle S-curve flight and 225' smooth and easy. The max weight ones I have to throw hard, they go fairly straight (no turn), then usually fade left, probably about 200' max. Sometimes they will dump left earlier and harder if I don't throw them great - the 150g never does that. The 150g, my bigger concern is keeping good form, good release, so it doesn't turn too much on me - sometimes it will turn for almost the entire flight, but so far it doesn't flip over on me. My 145-150g Terns max about 265', and a Shryke and Katana similar, but average a little more distance than the Terns. If I throw any of them in max weight, they will almost for sure dump hard left early. Think meat hook early. I agree with Muppet's last post - most agree light weight equals more speed at release, which equals more distance under the right circumstances. Little to no wind, a little less arm speed, and light weight discs will go faster and further. For someone throwing 400' plus, I doubt very much a light weight disc helps them - probably flips over into the ground/roller, or fades out sooner than a max weight disc. Maybe throwing 300-350' is about where gains from light weight distance drivers start to go away? Bowling ball/baseball/tennis ball/whiffle ball is a great, obviously exaggerated, way to think of disc weight. It takes a lot of power to throw the bowling ball the furthest. Most adults can throw a baseball further than either a bowling ball or a whiffle ball, but a 5 year old might throw their furthest with tennis balls or whiffle balls. I just can't stand people saying throw only max weight, work on your form. Ugh. My sweet spot for distance drivers right now is 145-150g. Lighter than that gets too much like a whiffle ball. Heavier gets towards a bowling ball. Fairway drivers I can go heavier, but I won't get nearly the distance I get with my 145-150g Terns, etc.

You're the only person that I've put on ignore during my time on DGCR. Decided to take a look at this and you've reinforced my original decision. Nobody cares what your sweet spot for disc weight is at 5 months playing and max distance of 265'.

No need to reply, I won't see it.

 

[Countchunkula]

You're the only person that I've put on ignore during my time on DGCR. Decided to take a look at this and you've reinforced my original decision. Nobody cares what your sweet spot for disc weight is at 5 months playing and max distance of 265'.

No need to reply, I won't see it.

LOL! Eager, long-winded noobs have always helped keep this message board rolling.

At least Chris isn't endlessly arguing technique with Sidewinder like Rodeo. That was ridiculous and he was probably the first person I put on ignore.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

You're the only person that I've put on ignore during my time on DGCR. Decided to take a look at this and you've reinforced my original decision. Nobody cares what your sweet spot for disc weight is at 5 months playing and max distance of 265'.

No need to reply, I won't see it.

Yet. Here you are. Like a Marshmallow over a fire.

 

[discerdoo]

Yet. Here you are. Like a Marshmallow over a fire.

Not gonna lie, I've gawked at car wrecks before too.

 

[Sheep]

Thank you for the in-depth answer, I appreciate it! My conclusion is that for us mere mortals, it doesn't really have THAT much of an impact and it's personal preference.

He must be one of those 650 foot thrower guys. Thats all I can think of.