Par 3 or Par 4? That is the Question...

[_.-Dut-._]

Maybe I just have more of a "ball golf" attitude.

Is ther Par 2's in ball golf?

Not being sarcastic, but I thought the short holes being Par 3, kind of originated from Ball golf.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

is it the par thats gimicky? or the hole?
a 64 ft par 3 is just stupid ... and yes I have played one that was that long and set as par 3 ...
I never really had an opinion on it, but after reading about teh gold CR it just seemed to make sense better than just playing par 3s etc. I dont know where the whole "everyhting is par 3" comes from but I just dont get that ... maybe because my background is ball golf Im just used to having different pars on different holes, the truth is not all holes are the same.

Your right, its probably not the Par as much as the hole. With that being said, I like different pars. Im in favor of a 500' hole being considered a par 4 and not a 3. I just dont think it should get below a 3. Now if that means that the 100' hole thats coming up, everyone understands you have to birdie that to keep up, im ok with that. If that means no hole is shorter then 100' Im ok with that to. But at somepoint there has to be a bottom.

I agree a 50' par 3 is cake, and if I hit the jump-putt off the Tee I wouldnt count it as an ace, or an eagle. However stepping up to the tee, and thinking "alright, this is for birdie" seems just as foolish.

 

[valkyriefb11]

I agree a 50' par 3 is cake, and if I hit the jump-putt off the Tee I wouldnt count it as an ace, or an eagle. However stepping up to the tee, and thinking "alright, this is for birdie" seems just as foolish.

Just the idea of jump putting off the tee makes me laugh ... it just seems so wrong to me

 

[Olorin]

Because then we're on the same level as mini-golf. If you wanna set up an 18 hole par 2 mini course, I guess that'd be ok.

If you ever get a chance visit The Grange Tiki course. All par 2s. Hey, I got an ace on a 90 ft. hole and it still felt good and I count it in my aces total.

 

[Lewis]

I understand the argument against par 2 holes, but in disc golf, a par 3 hole is analogous to a par 4 hole in ball golf. Most ball golf courses are set up for a 72-stroke "scratch" round, whereas most disc golf courses are set up for 54 strokes. 72 is 18x4, making par 4 the "standard" length, from which short holes get adjusted to par 3 and long holes get adjusted to par 5. By analogy, a short hole in disc golf would be 2 strokes, making an ace a birdie. I think (I think Olorin with his CR par might disagree) that the difference is in the putting. Ball golfers usually need 2 putts to hole out, and par reflects that. Disc golfers usually need only one putt, maybe one and a half putts to hole out. As disc golf matures, we may see courses get longer and longer, and we may see more and more par 4 and even par 5 holes. The only real obstacle I see is finding the open land to do it.

 

[Tiggertooth]

I believe the everything-is-a-par-3 mentality started because most the courses were in public parks, with very little funding, and poor to non-existent signs. In that environment, it may be easiest for a local community to agree on par 3. I bet early golf courses did a similar thing.

I play what the signs say, and if there aren't signs, then I make my best guess as to what a PDGA course designer would specify. For that reason, I play a few holes at local courses that don't have signs as Par 4s. As an example, for those in DFW, I play hole #1 on the Beaver Course at Lester Lorch Park as a Par 4. That's what I think the PDGA would mark it as.

The everything is a par 3 paradigm is going to hold the sport back, in my opinion. It makes the game sound trivial. It doesn't make the game seem interesting at all. And it doesn't reflect the point of par. If you walk up to a 900' hole and say "well, long par 3" then you're just ruining the idea of what par is.

I agree with the idea that Par 3 makes disc golf sound like mini-golf. It trivializes the sport to others. If someone is out there building true par 4s and par 5s, lets welcome that and support it. I hope we eventually are able to find a way to standardize in the same way ball golf has.

 

[srm_520]

However, no matter how short the hole in ball golf - there is no par 2. It's the same argument to making something a par 5. What is wrong with an easy birdie?? Besides a 60 footer can still go bad. Par 2's - uugghhh. One more reason the PDGA guidlines need to become more standardized quicker. This conversation wouldn't even exist in ball golf. The moment people start talking par 6 on super monster holes...uuuggghhh. That's the best I've got.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

Another thing that added to the everything is par 3 is that fact that most holes are par 3. I have only played discgolf in the two Carolinas but we have par 4 and par 5 holes, but by far and away the most common is par 3.

 

[biscoe]

there are a number of par 6 holes in ball golf, one of them is right down the road from me. http://www.meadowsfarms.com/v.php?pg=5

 

[Olorin]

I believe the everything-is-a-par-3 mentality started because most the courses were in public parks, with very little funding, and poor to non-existent signs.

The historical roots are that Steady Ed Headrick consciously targeted Recreational players so he vigorously promoted that every hole should be a par 3 and it got woven into the early DNA of disc golf. These were meant to be true par 3s so there weren't supposed to be holes that were too short or too long for a par 3. (I've never seen this documented, so it's only my guess, but I've always suspected that Headrick targeted Rec players because he worked for Whamo and he thought that was the largest market to sell more frisbees.) This thinking was well before the PDGA, pros, and bevel edged discs.

With the current state of disc golf technology, a pro tour, and the PDGA we've evolved past the "everything is par 3" stage. The vast majority of holes still ARE par 3, but to say that every hole is a par 3 is patently ludicrous.

Where would traditional golf and the PGA tour be if all of their courses were par 3 Executive length courses?

 

[srm_520]

Ahh Jesus, now I've seen it all - and as usual I'm left slackjawed, wide-eyed, and corrected. Thank you. By the way - that par 6 did say longest hole in America, and I'm betting we're not going to see it on the tour anytime soon.

 

[biscoe]

i don't think it's actually the longest in the u.s. anymore... i think there was one somewhere near seattle that passed it, i also vaguely remember hearing about longer ones in japan. you're right though- it won't be on the tour anytime soon.

 

[harr0140]

I would be excited if I saw a legitame par 5 on a scorecard. It makes it more interesting to not only have one approach shot and 2 putts or a drive, approach and a putt. It would be nice to see a hole with a long drive , a layup shot to get to a dogleg or an opening in the woods. An approach shot to get it within putting distance, and a 1 putt yields a birdie, while a 2 putt would yield a par.

I dont want to see a hole that is 300' and is a par 5 unless there are some major difficulties (like it went in a circle or something). I agree that in golf a par 3 is assumed to be an approach shot and 2 putts because for the average golfer 2 putts is an average. Good putters can maybe have 27-28 putts in an 18 hole round. In disc golf this comes down to approach shots. I would have to say a true putt would maybe be 50' instead of 30' Because it is way easier for even a beginner to make a putt from 30' with a disc than it would be with a ball in golf.