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[ChrisWoj]

So Chris woj belittling anybody with a Christian/conservative affiliation is punching up because they are the majority?

I'm so confused now

I guess I just come from a place where when you get upset with an individual you don't retaliate by pointing the finger at a group of people. Makes you look silly and makes your point look pointless

Shallows quite clearly chose to represent his view as the view of conservatives. It was explicit in the post I was responding to. I was responding in kind to his choice to call himself out as representative of conservatives. "What the **** is wrong with you people?!" was in response to someone proclaiming that he was explicitly representing his views "as a conservative," as emblematic of conservative belief.

In that post he represented conservatives as thinking that women should embrace being vulnerable (as opposed to, how about, telling others to stop objectifying them and creating situations where vulnerability is necessary for expression).

In that post he representing conservatives as thinking that women should for sure pursue their unique gifts, but explicitly NOT athletic gifts, and instead would be brought greater happiness pursuing gifts that are communal, relational, and emotional (as opposed to, how about, realizing that pursuit of supporting community, relationships, and emotions can be done in a life that focuses heavily on pursuing athletic pursuits).

Shallows expressed these views as, explicitly, "a conservative." He didn't present them as him personally - he presented them in his words as representative of a people. And in response I say: What. The ****. Is wrong. With you people?

Explicitly directed at those he claims to represent.

Maybe those of you who are conservative who do not agree with him should be quibbling with the way he chose to claim to be representative of you and NOT with the person calling out how ****ed up that all is?

 

[Skamanda]

That's why we need people to post their ratings, so we can see whos oppressing who all the way down the leaderboard.

My rating lets me play MA3, so I can pick on anyone in this thread, except for you.

 

[Skamanda]

The bottom line is if somebody came on here after gingerandhoney made a point and said what the $&@$ is wrong with you people…. They would be gone.

Tell me I'm wrong….

I mean, I basically did exactly that, and I'm still here - and not just because I'm trans. Unlike some people, I can admit when I was wrong, and apologize for it, as well as being very polite to people I disagree with (even those who are arguing for stripping my rights, or preventing me from getting any). That's what makes what I did "debating", while what the conservatives in this thread (and most other threads about trans rights) do is "punching down".

Do you need help to see the distinction?

 

[ChrisWoj]

Punching up vs down makes a difference to anyone with empathy.

The expression "punching down" is typically used when a comedian uses humor directed at a minority, or at the very least, a social class beneath their own. "Punching up" means its inverse, humor directed at those in power, those holding power, those who have authority, etc.

So, essentially, saying "What is wrong with you" to someone because they have a condition the majority of people in the world do not have is punching down. Saying "What is wrong with you" to the someone belittling those individuals, or those oppressing them, is punching up.

So Chris woj belittling anybody with a Christian/conservative affiliation is punching up because they are the majority?

I'm so confused now

I guess I just come from a place where when you get upset with an individual you don't retaliate by pointing the finger at a group of people. Makes you look silly and makes your point look pointless

In this case I was directly calling out a group, regardless of "up" or "down" that the person I was responding to was claiming to represent with those views - direct engagement. The closest we've got to a conservative critiquing Shallows views is BionicRib (assuming he considers himself conservative) stating, "I'm not defending the original post that started it." Aside from that, though, we have not yet had a single conservative voice choose to stand up and say that what Shallows said does not represent accurately their perspective on the views women should embrace or the roles they should take in society.

 

[Shallows]

I'm not sure why someone's PDGA rating is measure of punching up or punching down when considering their responses on a forum like this.

Good point, maybe people's "Niced" ratios would be more appropriate

 

[Shallows]

My rating lets me play MA3, so I can pick on anyone in this thread, except for you.

Technically I should play MA3 too but I let my PDGA membership expire so I can win all the cool prizes in MA4 tee hee

 

[robdeforge]

I've always thought minorities who lean right must be masochists.

minorities are just as capable of being racist/homophobic/transphobic/etc. so even though they are an "out" group in one way or another, in other ways they are the "in" group and can be convinced to vote based on that

 

[ru4por]

That's why we need people to post their ratings, so we can see whos oppressing who all the way down the leaderboard.

Still looks like a put up or shut up proposition.

 

[BionicRib]

Where have I once said anywhere that I am a conservative? If anybody must know I truly don't identify as liberal or conservative. I truly believe both sides have good points when it comes to debates like these. I try to listen to both sides and then come to an opinion that I like to think is reasonable and realistic.

Not fair to put a label on someone based on what you think they think. Do I lean conservative on certain issues? yes. Do I lean left on others? Yes

 

[sillybizz]

Where have I once said anywhere that I am a conservative? If anybody must know I truly don't identify as liberal or conservative. I truly believe both sides have good points when it comes to debates like these. I try to listen to both sides and then come to an opinion that I like to think is reasonable and realistic.

Not fair to put a label on someone based on what you think they think. Do I lean conservative on certain issues? yes. Do I lean left on others? Yes

Same for the most part, I consider myself slightly left of center overall but some topics I'm conservative on but that's how it goes here. Once you disagree with whatever the woke consensus DGCR opinion is they label you as a bigot, a racist, and worst of all a conservative.

 

[gingerandhoney]

Technically I should play MA3 too but I let my PDGA membership expire so I can win all the cool prizes in MA4 tee hee

Actually, no you don't. When you sign up, the TD sees your rating being in the MA3 bracket; it would force you to play MA3 whether you're a current or expired member.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Where have I once said anywhere that I am a conservative? If anybody must know I truly don't identify as liberal or conservative. I truly believe both sides have good points when it comes to debates like these. I try to listen to both sides and then come to an opinion that I like to think is reasonable and realistic.

Not fair to put a label on someone based on what you think they think. Do I lean conservative on certain issues? yes. Do I lean left on others? Yes

That would be why I included the clause: "assuming he considers himself a conservative" in my post - the fact that I had no way to be certain.

The closest we've got to a conservative critiquing Shallows views is BionicRib (assuming he considers himself conservative) stating, "I'm not defending the original post that started it."

It was inserted to express uncertainty. Had I felt certain that you were a conservative there would have been no reason to insert that clause.

With that in mind - there is nothing even remotely close to a conservative denying that Shallows' views (that women should embrace that they will feel exposed to harm and that they should not engage in athletic pursuits in favor of pursuits focused around community, relationships, and emotions - as though those things are mutually exclusive) are anything but emblematic of conservative belief.

He expressed that his views came inherently from his being a conservative, where are the conservatives denying his truth?

 

[gingerandhoney]

Same for the most part, I consider myself slightly left of center overall but some topics I'm conservative on but that's how it goes here. Once you disagree with whatever the woke consensus DGCR opinion is they label you as a bigot, a racist, and worst of all a conservative.

Wait til you see what political spectrum does when it crosses borders.
I remember from social studies in the '90s in college, that our "three fragmented conservative Christian parties" would show up on the "left of centre" in the USA.

 

[Hampstead]

Same for the most part, I consider myself slightly left of center overall but some topics I'm conservative on but that's how it goes here. Once you disagree with whatever the woke consensus DGCR opinion is they label you as a bigot, a racist, and worst of all a conservative.

Kind of like your use of the word "woke"?

 

[Shallows]

Actually, no you don't. When you sign up, the TD sees your rating being in the MA3 bracket; it would force you to play MA3 whether you're a current or expired member.

My burgeoning clutch of beer koozies and "1st place!" customized dx wombats says otherwise

 

[BionicRib]

He expressed that his views came inherently from his being a conservative, where are the conservatives denying his truth?

He's entitled to his opinion whether anybody agrees with it or not. Everybody on here comes from different backgrounds/experiences. Battling/calling them out on a social media platform doesn't solve anything imo. I'm not here to change anyones opinion and I truly don't believe that shaming them publicly is going to work anyways. Your comment imo does nothing to keep an honest debate/discussion headed in the right direction. Just my two cents.

 

[Jukeshoe]

You don't find that to be true? Woj uses personal attacks and the illusion of moral superiority in almost any 'debate' he is ever in, others who are now banned who lean right used the same tactics. Both super mods are active in the politics section and are clearly on the left. So there's no bias there?! mmmk

If only we had someone on the right who could have been a moderator and balanced their views...



Edit: Oh YeAH, we did have one, and it was YOU! :|


(And a bad job of it you did, IIRC, so don't throw shade at Zenbot & 3Putz because you should know more than most how decent of a job they do...especially unpaid and having to deal with you ding dongs in the polifori....)

 

[Streets]

opcorn:

 

[sillybizz]

If only we had someone on the right who could have been a moderator and balanced their views...



Edit: Oh YeAH, we did have one, and it was YOU! :|


(And a bad job of it you did, IIRC, so don't throw shade at Zenbot & 3Putz because you should know more than most how decent of a job they do...especially unpaid and having to deal with you ding dongs in the polifori....)

I will no longer comment on the job the mods do here. I am not on the right, I don't claim moral superiority or think my tribe is better than yours.

 

[zenbot]

If a cisgender person says "What the **** is wrong with you people" in response to an out transwoman, which is the example you stated, that's punching down.

I told sillybiz that, as a gay man, I was surprised that he doesn't defend other marginalized people in the LGBTQIA2S+ community but actively speaks out against them. Because of that, he's repeatedly labeled my language and myself as homophobic and stated that I "weaponized" his sexuality against him.

Serious question as I'm always trying to improve; Do you feel that's a valid criticism?