PDGA Website Scoring no longer requires players to sign their scorecard

[KillerKoala777]

I prefer a phone as I love statistics and being able to look back at my rounds and see how I have improved. Udisc provides a very easy way to track a number of stats and averages over the years.

 

[Countchunkula]

I haven't played a tournament in years and rules may have changed a few times since. I read a few times in this thread that there was previously no requirement for each player to sign the scorecard and that's conflicting with my memories.

Did there used to be a requirement for all players to sign off on the paper scorecard?

I seem to remember having to do that at Krupicka's IOS tourneys a decade or so ago. Not sure if that was a pdga rule or just a best practice that tourney staff put in place.

 

[biscoe]

I haven't played a tournament in years and rules may have changed a few times since. I read a few times in this thread that there was previously no requirement for each player to sign the scorecard and that's conflicting with my memories.

Did there used to be a requirement for all players to sign off on the paper scorecard?

I seem to remember having to do that at Krupicka's IOS tourneys a decade or so ago. Not sure if that was a pdga rule or just a best practice that tourney staff put in place.

All players were at one point required to initial the card. Then that ceased, unsure why. Then Live Scoring came along and all players were required to sign off even though it was as simple as entering last name or PDGA number so it could be fudged easily enough. Most recently that requirement has gone away.

 

[glassila]

As somebody who has a smart phone and is very technologically inclined and literate, I hate using my phone while playing disc golf. I'll keep score with pen and paper or not at all. I don't particularly like it when other people use udisc either but that's up to them - IMO you don't really notice how jarring it is to have somebody take out their phone between every. single. hole. until you don't do that. But I really would not be a fan of being forced to use my phone to keep score.

What!!? In my experience, entering scores on a phone is quicker and easier than writing down scores on a scorecard.

 

[robdeforge]

What!!? In my experience, entering scores on a phone is quicker and easier than writing down scores on a scorecard.

writing down scores on pen and paper is PRETTY easy imo, but that was not the point I was trying to make. when people take out their phones, even in tournaments, it distracts them from what is at hand more than taking scores with pen and paper would

 

[BillFleming]

I had experiences recently with phone and paper/pencil scorekeeping. I was the digital scorekeeper and another player was the paper/pencil scorekeeper. First hole, I had to supply the other scorekeeper with a pencil (no one else had one). Then at every tee pad, we had to wait until the paper/pencil scorekeeper pulled out their paper/pencil AND something to support the paper (a disc in this case).

Another round where I wasn't either scorekeeper and the same thing happened, the person keeping score digitally was ready for scores quicker than the paper/pencil scorekeeper.

One issue I've seen with the digital scoring is that the order of players change....so it is easy to mark a score for a wrong person if you aren't paying attention. Player 1 is always first on the tee, get used to that when entering scores, then Player 1 has a bad hole and drops a spot or two....now you could think they are still in #1 spot and mark is so. But that also means you aren't paying attention to the app as it shows the names. Paper/pencil, the order on the scorecard is always the same for the round. I've seen this happen in a league, the digital player called off the names to get scores and the paper/pencil scorer put them down in the order on the paper:, for example, four players start in this order A, B, C, D. At the start the digital and paper card's order match. But then, a few holes in.....
Digital calls for scores in order: A, C, D, B
Paper writes scores in order: A, B, C, D
(Player A's score on both is okay, but then the digital scorer asks for C's score and the paper scorer puts it down as B's score).

With paper/pencil, it's easy to start scoring on the wrong hole (I've seen this happen more using paper/pencil than with digital).

I've also seen more addition errors using paper/pencil than with digital.

Pencil lead/points break, pens run out of ink, paper tears, blows away in the wind, gets wet.....
Digital...battery runs low/out, sunlight is too bright to see the screen, keeping the phone dry in wet weather.

One thing that has changed is that when paper/pencil was the only option, the rules "required" that everyone take turns scoring, unless the group agreed otherwise. With digital, you can't share the scoring and two people get stuck doing it.

So, I don't know what the answer is; both have pros and cons. But I personally like the digital option better, especially when two players are using PDGA Live Scoring as it immediately shows if both entries don't match.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Maybe they could just have the tee order column change and not move way the players are organized on the screen?

 

[ray1970]

when people take out their phones, even in tournaments, it distracts them from what is at hand more than taking scores with pen and paper would

While everyone is probably different, this is far from the truth for me. Taking my phone out of my pocket for probably fifteen seconds to get scores between holes doesn't distract me at all.

Once digital score keeping started becoming pretty common I actually found it annoying and kind of a hassle when I'd show up to an event and they were using paper scorecards.

 

[BillFleming]

Another benefit of digital scoring (at least for me), is that when I'm doing the scoring I get to see the hole distance. I'm not really good, so I'm normally "back of the box". When I get to a new hole, it's a pain to go up to the tee sign to check distances because the "first on the box" is usually getting ready to throw. I could wait until it is my turn to check the tee sign, but then I'm delaying things.....it's your turn Bill...okay, let me check the tee sign for distances and rules....okay, now I need to get the right disc for this. Instead, soon as I put in scores on the digital card and advance it to the next hole, I can see the distance and any hole-specific rules. And not all tournaments put the distances on the paper cards.

So, I prefer the digital score cards, but I am also okay with those that want to use paper ones. Regardless of how it is done, if there are two scorekeepers per card it's good.

 

[ToddL]

One issue I've seen with the digital scoring is that the order of players change....so it is easy to mark a score for a wrong person if you aren't paying attention. Player 1 is always first on the tee, get used to that when entering scores, then Player 1 has a bad hole and drops a spot or two....now you could think they are still in #1 spot and mark is so. But that also means you aren't paying attention to the app as it shows the names. Paper/pencil, the order on the scorecard is always the same for the round. I've seen this happen in a league, the digital player called off the names to get scores and the paper/pencil scorer put them down in the order on the paper:, for example, four players start in this order A, B, C, D. At the start the digital and paper card's order match. But then, a few holes in.....
Digital calls for scores in order: A, C, D, B
Paper writes scores in order: A, B, C, D
(Player A's score on both is okay, but then the digital scorer asks for C's score and the paper scorer puts it down as B's score).

https://media.giphy.com/media/alBysMrQFhDeZ9Q68Z/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/iCd5E8WMdAzDWLZKrC/giphy.gif
(sorry if the gif is clipping early...)

I prefer to use the "List" order for this reason. It's easier to always take score in the same order every hole, IMO.

 

[krupicka]

I would not want to be forced to use my phone during a rainy round. Phone are water resistant, not water proof, and risking damage to a(n expensive) personal electronic device just to avoid having to keep score with pen and paper seems crazy to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I use my non-water resistant phone in a Ziploc bag. Never have to take it out of the bage as it can sense you touching the screen through the Ziploc. Stays a lot drier than any paper score card ever would.

 

[krupicka]

I haven't played a tournament in years and rules may have changed a few times since. I read a few times in this thread that there was previously no requirement for each player to sign the scorecard and that's conflicting with my memories.

Did there used to be a requirement for all players to sign off on the paper scorecard?

I seem to remember having to do that at Krupicka's IOS tourneys a decade or so ago. Not sure if that was a pdga rule or just a best practice that tourney staff put in place.

Used to be a rule, but rule went away but many players still followed it as best practice. I don't know that I ever denied a card that wasn't signed off by the players. Of course one of the old school guys working TC with me might have.

 

[glassila]

https://media.giphy.com/media/alBysMrQFhDeZ9Q68Z/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/iCd5E8WMdAzDWLZKrC/giphy.gif
(sorry if the gif is clipping early...)

I prefer to use the "List" order for this reason. It's easier to always take score in the same order every hole, IMO.

Does anyone know if UDisc allows you to keep the order that the scores are entered the same?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I prefer a phone as I love statistics and being able to look back at my rounds and see how I have improved. Udisc provides a very easy way to track a number of stats and averages over the years.

I love UDisc for this now. Cue the old man voice...Back in my day, I had a floppy disk with over 250 rounds on a spreadsheet. Hole-by-hole averages and everything. I was the only weird person I knew doing this at the time.

If anybody has ever heard of AmiPro, that's the program I used on my 486. I believe it was a competitor of Lotus 1-2-3. Still have the floppy disk but haven't looked at it in a good 22 years or more. A ton of rounds at Grand Woods Park in Lansing, MI on there!

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

...but, yeah, I'm following this thread here. I like how you had to enter your PDGA# at the end of a sanctioned round to signify you're cool with your score. Don't understand why they'd do away with this. Now it opens the possibility of a bunch of cards being submitted without all the players giving it the okay.

Always check your scores. I learned the hard way in the 2000 Michigan state finals when I trusted someone else. Still made the cut in Am-1 after the penalty, but was the last to do so by one stroke. I was shaking when it happened thinking I'd blown it. Lesson learned.

Fast forward to about two years ago in a tourney in MA-40 and a guy in his first ever tournament. I said "par" on a hole while he was keeping score and he thought I said "4" instead of the three I got. We fixed it before we turned it in. I knew I had shot X but he had me down for X+1 at the end and it took a good while to figure out which hole was in question. "I am certain I had a 3 on this hole here," and sure enough he thought had said "4" when I had said "par." It's all good.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I haven't played a tournament in years and rules may have changed a few times since. I read a few times in this thread that there was previously no requirement for each player to sign the scorecard and that's conflicting with my memories.

Did there used to be a requirement for all players to sign off on the paper scorecard?

I seem to remember having to do that at Krupicka's IOS tourneys a decade or so ago. Not sure if that was a pdga rule or just a best practice that tourney staff put in place.

Yep, in every tournament I played from 1998-2006 before I took 14 years off we had to initial the scorecard. It was only in MI and IN though.

 

[txmxer]

I love UDisc for this now. Cue the old man voice...Back in my day, I had a floppy disk with over 250 rounds on a spreadsheet. Hole-by-hole averages and everything. I was the only weird person I knew doing this at the time.

If anybody has ever heard of AmiPro, that's the program I used on my 486. I believe it was a competitor of Lotus 1-2-3. Still have the floppy disk but haven't looked at it in a good 22 years or more. A ton of rounds at Grand Woods Park in Lansing, MI on there!

I started 2 years ago and have a spreadsheet.

I was pretty excited when I got a text editor that you could format text. Spreadsheets just about blew my mind as an engineering student.

 

[ray1970]

Fast forward to about two years ago in a tourney in MA-40 and a guy in his first ever tournament. I said "par" on a hole while he was keeping score and he thought I said "4" instead of the three I got. We fixed it before we turned it in. I knew I had shot X but he had me down for X+1 at the end and it took a good while to figure out which hole was in question. "I am certain I had a 3 on this hole here," and sure enough he thought had said "4" when I had said "par." It's all good.

Well, when I ask people for a score on a hole I am expecting a numerical response so I can see where your par might have gotten scored as a four.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Well, when I ask people for a score on a hole I am expecting a numerical response so I can see where your par might have gotten scored as a four.

For sure, especially since the guy was brand new to the sport and wasn't around for the old days when everything was par three.

On that note, I was standing five feet away from Scott Stokely in 1999 with my video camera on the next tee after he had struck the roof of an event tent on a safari hole for the DGLO final 9. When Mark Ellis was asking for scores, he plainly stated, "tent" for his score. Here, I'll cue it up for the curious who haven't seen it yet. Lizard Lawyer knew he was joking, of course... https://youtu.be/aQN0VlxOD_Y?t=1020

 

[robdeforge]

I use my non-water resistant phone in a Ziploc bag. Never have to take it out of the bage as it can sense you touching the screen through the Ziploc. Stays a lot drier than any paper score card ever would.

when it's raining I also put my phone in a ziploc bag and would prefer to not have to take it out of the zippered pocket of my grip bag at all unless absolutely necessary, but it does seem like a (preferably new) ziploc bag should be fine for this purpose. I was also just thinking, it might be possible to use a phone that has no mobile data if there is wifi available to upload the scores so maybe that's what I would default to. but otherwise the requirement for a phone is actually not just for a phone but a phone + some sort of plan that includes data. which to a lot of us is no biggie but still in this day and age should not always be assumed people have access to IMO