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PDGA WORLD'S in Charlotte 2012

i thought the noda woody and wilcox ipa was pretty tasty, i also enjoyed foothills seeing double, natty greens freedom, four friends I-77 and OMB Rein as far as the different NC beers i tried while i was there, i left total wine with over $100 worth of various beers i cant get in indiana...
 
Okay, here's my (very long) course review of my trip, broken up into two posts:

My 2012 PDGA World Championships trip started off with a stop at Randolph Park DGC in Dublin, VA, which is just south of Blacksburg and very, very conveniently located just off highway I-81. It's a relatively new course, having just been established in 2008 but it's a very nice pro par 58 track. Playing from the longest set of tees (blue) I thought this was an excellent mix of wooded and open holes and never got boring. Some of the blue tees were a little difficult to find and we actually ended up playing from the white tee on the pro par four sixth hole and the pro par five thirteenth hole, but that did not diminish our enjoyment of the course. For a Pennsylvania woods golfer, I found the woods on the front nine to be tough but fair and would be a good preparation for the Charlotte courses; however, my traveling companion Bill Newman felt that the wooded fairways were just a little too narrow for his liking. I can only think of a few small areas for improvement which relate mostly due to distance and par assessments. For example, the 425 ft twelfth hole is listed as a par four from the blue tees but this an easy two-shot par 3 hole. And at 465 ft but playing severely downhill, the fourteenth hole is reachable for a deuce and nowhere even close to par four consideration, even if the drainage channels around the basket were considered OB. On the flip side, the 590 ft pro par four sixteenth hole is just so well protected in the woods that I don't see scores of birdie three as a very realistic possibility on a consistent basis. Both Bill I felt that the polehole should be shortened by about 40-50 feet to allow blue level (~950) rated players (for which it was presumably designed for) a better opportunity at birdie.

Bottom line is that with a 3.65 rating here at DGcoursereview.com, I feel this course has loads of potential, and with a little adjustment it could easily crack the 4.0 line and be considered a course WELL above average. I was certainly glad that we stopped in to check it out, and I'd definitely love to check it out again, especially if the retention ponds on holes#11-12 and 13-14 are full with water.

Arriving in Charlotte on Friday, we immediately proceeded to the famed Renaissance Park. Driving into the park and first seeing the power line 8th and 15th holes on my left, followed by the famed 2nd and 18th holes on my right gave me goose bumps! This is a course which obviously has a great reputation and as someone who is sick of pitch-n-putts and is a huge fan of pro par four and pro par five disc golf, Renny had been a glaring omission on my disc golf resume for over a decade. From a design perspective, the course exceeded every expectation and then some. I simply have not seen any other course which offers so many different options, challenges, and unique features from a course design perspective. Without fail, you are likely to use every disc golf shot you've ever learned in the course of play, and you'll love every frustrating minute of it. I have never experienced a course where I shot two 7s and an 8 in one round and wasn't all that upset about it, and in fact thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of it. A good majority of the holes could be signature holes at any other course, and when they follow each other in succession, it feels almost too good to be true. I have never experienced a putt like I had from below the basket on hole#2, and the 18th hole is simply one of the most sadistic & masochistic, but ingenious, holes in all of disc golf. To record a spectacular eagle three here would be something you could honestly boast about for the rest of your life, and just securing a score of birdie four is an amazing testament of disc golf skill, combining both distance and accuracy on every shot.

With that being said, I was actually majorly disappointed with the course, namely due to its appearance. For starters, the course looked beat – like it had been neglected for quite some time. What's really mind-boggling is that a course which is less than 15 years old looked like it was twice that age. I was shocked at the amount of litter and trash which dotted most of the wooded holes on the front nine, and this was a mere four days before the start of the World Championships there! The tee pads were crumbly and decayed, and the blue "W-12" painted on the tees were badly faded on most holes. The chain link fence with barbwire on holes#3-5 was absolutely atrocious and had no business being on a course of this supposed high caliber. The OB markings which gave the course its teeth were sadly inconsistent and ugly, with wooden stakes, PVC pipe, metal pipe, painted garden stakes, orange flags, orange paint, and red flags all used at various times to denote OB, and sometimes all within the same hole! The tee signs also featured similar inconsistency, with unappealing numbering techniques such as metallic mailbox, plastic, and wooden numbers used in various locations, and frankly, it just looked ghetto. On the back nine, the OB stakes between holes#11 and 13 were missing altogether in many places. From a flow of play perspective, the course was a nightmare. The signage and ease of finding one's way around on the front nine were dreadful, and three of us wandered around aimlessly at many times trying to find the next tee. On the back nine, the two longest holes come within a span of three holes, with another completely wide open par four sandwiched between them. The course itself is also crowded into a far, far smaller space than I imagined and it's no wonder that outrageous backups causing 4-5 hour rounds occur – this is simply not a course which can safely and easily handle a full tournament field, because of the ease with which shots can stray from one hole onto the fairway of another hole.

I appreciate the amazing amount of work which went into the creation of this course early last decade – surely this was a monumental task and I don't want to diminish the efforts of all those who labored in overbearing heat and humidity to carve out this track. Perhaps I simply overhyped it in my mind over all these years. Perhaps the local volunteers had too much work to perform on other courses in the last year or two and felt that Renny was in acceptable shape. Perhaps I was spoiled by the absolutely pristine appearance and country club conditions at courses like Bradford, Nevin Park, and R.L. Smith. But if all the top rated courses such as Flip City, Idlewild, Deer Lakes, Tyler State Park, etc. had trash all over them and looked as ghetto as Renaissance did, you'd dock these courses just as severely, too.

The next course I got to see was Bradford Park as the assistant TD of the Pro Mixed Doubles event. The park itself is located in what appears to be a very affluent suburban neighborhood well outside of the city, and the course had what I considered to be a correspondingly country club feel to it. While I didn't get to play the course, I was most impressed by the appearance and playability of a course which was less than eleven months old. I liked how the course progressed through several different topographies, alternating between some open holes, some tight woods, the "Cedar Alley" portion of the course, some more open holes, back into the woods, and then back out in the open to finish. As opposed to Renaissance, the OB was consistently and uniformly marked with small orange stakes only, and the concrete tee pads were brand new and perfect. The pin location on top of boulders on hole#3 was memorable, as was the original cedar alley which formed hole#9, a quintessential chute hole. The par four twelfth hole was imo one of the signature holes of the entire tournament, as the water levels in "Lake Schleppy" rose throughout the day from the accumulated plastic. This did not look to be an easy course, and Michael Johansen's nearly perfect round was just the result of a player who made excellent practice leading up to the Worlds event, and got into a zone and simply executed. Again, I feel that a 3.81 rating over at DGcoursereview.com is underrating it.
 
Up next was the Nevin Park course, which played almost predominantly in the woods. In its longest configurations, the course is nicknamed "The Nightmare" but it was thankfully shortened for speed of play for the Worlds competition. To be honest, I thought the first three holes were shockingly easy, where Gold level players would be embarrassed not to come away with a birdie on. I know I was disappointed that despite driving to the green on all three holes, I was unable to score deuces, and I'm a player of far less caliber than nearly all those playing in the Open & Masters division during tournaments. The fun really starts on hole#4 and continues through hole#10, when accuracy really becomes a premium. I played these holes conservatively and scored well on them, carding nearly all pars with just one bogey, while those I played with got too aggressive and took some double bogeys or worse on several holes. These holes are all about resisting temptation and playing smart golf, and I have no compassion for folks who complain about courses and holes like these simply because they attempt to throw 450-ft. shots, and then kick a hundred feet laterally into the underbrush. About the only drawback to these holes is that many of them play almost always dead straight and very similarly, and the course likely doesn't provide much scoring separation.

Hole#11 may have been one of the most deceiving holes I've encountered, as my playing partners and I emptied our bags and time and time again ended up left and short of the pin in heavy rough. It is followed by a hole which would surely be the signature one if not for the closing trifecta of delight which end the course. The double mando on hole#14 is a little hokey and likely results in shots being thrown outside the park and into the neighbor's yards – I really don't understand why the hole wouldn't just play straight ahead through the beautiful large mature trees. From the long tee, hole#16 would be a real bitch of a hole, and while the shorter tee turns it more into a tweener par 3/4, I was still very enthused to score a birdie three here. It was just as refreshing that the long tee for hole#17 was also not used, because from that location it might be one of the most awkward holes I've ever encountered. From the short tee, I was again enthused to throw a conservative drive and upshot, and two-putt for a par 4.

The closing hole is as picturesque as the prettiest postcard photo, and generated considerable "ooos and ahhs" from all of us on the tee. We all played the hole differently, with one cardmate launching a successful bomb across the creek from the tee while others chose to lay up before it with varying degrees of success. I love that the pin is set against a hillside which can be used as a backstop for approaches which come in a little too strong. All in all, this was one hell of a great course and well deserved of the 4.13 it garners on DGcoursereview.com.

Waking up early on Sunday morning, we played the R.L. Smith course before departing town, and words can't express how delighted I was to have played this gem. Every other course I played in Charlotte had a bit of all the requisite features that go into a top notch track but none packed them all into one course like R.L.Smith. The combination of the biggest elevation changes of Charlotte courses, multiple holes that actually bend hard left or right and aren't straight shots, alternating tight & more open wooded shots, crazy pin placements on top of enormous boulders, a beautiful water hazard which comes into play on a whopping 8 holes, some of the nicest benches, teepads and stained hardwood decks I've seen on any course ANYWHERE, make this my absolute favorite course I played this week or even in the last few years!

Just the bench on hole#1 and the walk down to the teepad give you an early sense that you are in for a top notch disc golf experience and a country club feel. I absolutely love, love, loved the ski slope green on hole#2 and the strategy it brings into play, because the decision to go for even a 25 ft. putt there can be a costly one. Hole#3 is a must-deuce, because you'll need it for the tweener hole#4 which follows… I absolutely loved the peninsula green here by the water. The 535' fifth hole which follows is about as perfect a pro par four hole as I can imagine, and hole#8 which throws from up on the hill down towards the water is one of the most unique par 3 holes I've ever seen. All of us were constantly uttering "ooos and ahhs" from the tee of just about every other hole on this course, and especially on this one. I was totally tempted to throw a really flippy Roc with hyzer because you want your shot to go left and then flatten out, but I was too scared that it would flip over and head OB to the right and so I opted just to fluff a pooch shot for a safe 3. The little bridges which gap the ravines and ditches here are a delightful touch, especially for a course that's only been in the ground less than a year.

Although certainly interesting, I'm not a big fan of "horseshoe" holes and so hole#9 was a little controversial, imo. I took an easy par four on it but I'd be interested to see how often this hole gets birdie 3'd – I'm willing to bet that it's few and far between. After checking out what was surely a very cool feature, Joy's Oasis, we played down to hole#12 which blew my mind – both in the quality of the deck teepad and the basket location amongst the rocks. That deck is nicer than ones I've seen at many folk's homes, and the look up at the basket was so sweet that we all stopped and took multiple pictures of it. We almost did the same on the tee for the closing trio of holes 16-18; I cannot recall a trio of holes to finish a course which elicited such "wow" moments from all of us on the tee pad. I mean, does disc golf get much better than the view and play from the "top of the world" on hole#18? If you're not a fan of this hole, then you might as well just give up the sport because this is just about the neatest hole in town.

All in all, I was just majorly impressed with the R.L. Smith and not even the sewer pipes which stuck up on a few holes and reportedly give up an occasional smell could drag down my opinion of it. Other than maybe an addition of a pro par five hole somewhere (maybe have hole#17 play all the way up to hole#18's teepad?) I can't even think of anything I would improve about this course. About the only negative thing I could note was the bag of trash on the tee of hole#6…I'm not really sure why when trash was surely being hauled out from the Oasis all week long that no assistant course TD or spotter bothered to remove this eyesore.

I'm all against grade inflation, but in sticking with the theme, I feel however that the 3.87 which R.L. Smith is currently garnering at DGcoursereview.com is criminally underrating the course. If this course isn't at least a 4.0 in featuring perfect basket conditions , perfect tee signs & markers, fairways & flow, foliage maintenance, the nicest benches ANYWHERE, with elevation, epic holes, restrooms, running water, variety of hole distances, variety of shots required, and challenge, then I don't know what is.

Thanks Charlotte for amazing courses and an amazing time! :thmbup:
 
Nice review of the courses, lung. It was a good read. I'll throw in my two cents and say that the fences on holes 3 and 4 at Renny add a degree of difficulty to the holes if you miss your line and have no look at the basket because of the fence in your face. RL Smith ratings are sure to go up. The benches you saw all over the course were installed on Saturday before Worlds started. The deck on 12 was installed that Thursday or Friday. RL didn't even have concrete tees until this spring.
 
Your thoughts are my thoughts almost exactly, Jeff - thanks for the write-up! I had walked RL Smith in May 2011 with the designers/builders a few weeks before baskets went in and I am more than blown away with the (almost) finished product. I had not seen Bradford, and I like it a lot!

Renny is an amazing design, but the land is simply not too beautiful (since you mentioned the chainlink fence, I am surprised you did not mention the ugliness of the powerlines. Also, the "cramming too much in causing some fairway conflict" sentiment was almost all caused when Stan took the original design and overlaid the Gold course on it.

One small thing to note on your "the two longest holes come within a span of three holes" should really be 3 in the span of 4 holes (10, 11, 13).....and on a related note is balanced out some with the front when you are playing 4 & 5 long (which were not played in Worlds....and is not the exact point you were making).
 
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Glad to hear they got RL Smith in great shape last week. It was overgrown and virtually unplayable at times this summer b/c the grass was waist high, or worse, on many holes. Maybe that can be attributed to the lower than expected overall rating on this site. I love that course, but when it's not trimmed down, it's a disc eater with the insanely high grass/weeds.
 
3 committed DGers who have poured their souls into the course live within 1/2 mile of the entrance. They fully understand that 1-3 and the green of 18 will take lots of maintenance. I am sure they will stay on top of it now that the bulk of the course is completed.

If RL Smith does not rise to at least 4.40 here, that will make DGCR look bad. I will play it in a couple of weeks and fully expect it to come really close to 5.0 for (if not be rated that way).
 
Jeff LaG, I think your comments are prettymuch spot on. I should have warned you about navigation on Renny. Can't disagree with anything else you said about it: Great GREAT golf, TONS of work done, but can't say much beyond that. (The original course might have actually been a little better than the current incarnation. It's totally gone now (the current "black" course isn't the same layout as the original), but it had a couple short and interesting holes that were sadly lost to erosion and whatnot.

I'm glad y'all liked RL. I've been out there twice (before concrete tees and all the other nice things) and I thought it was just super fun. I agree that #5 is almost perfect. I'm sure the whole course is WAY too easy for top level pros, but I think it's a perfect balance of fun and challenge for a WIDE range of player skills. I hope to make time to get out there and play it in Worlds condition -- Dave242, when you going to play it?

Seems like I should also get up to Bradford some day -- but it might as well be in D.C. for as far away as I am on the south side.
 
Thanks for the reviews Lung. Just one note about Nevin #14 design/history if anyone cares.

Originally the hole played to the last mound in the field and offered roll aways and an OB line 20' from the basket.
If straight, from the current tee a BH roller, side arm or big back hand could get to putting distance for anyone throwing 400' (because it is downhill) The hyzer double mando route forces a low early hyzer and makes it extremly difficult to penetrate down the fairway with a huge drive. Straight it would have been a tweener par 3. Double mando it is a tweener 4 but at least with risk of a penalty throw. So sure we could have pushed the tee back and the basket back to add distance. Perhaps this will be in the plans for a par 72 layout.

Why we didn't use the straight shot...

The field is used by a number of different people including people that play OFTEN vollyball with wierd balls only using their feet. We needed to stay to the right of that field.
To make the hole more challenging we would have had to push the basket back. Any deeper in the woods is SLOP the whole field drains there. I put 4 pieces of 6' rebar and a french drain under 15's teepad, for drainage, because I feared that it would slide down the hill or erode underneath.

People's yards:
Less discs travel into yards now than when the basket was in the field on the mound. People would throw hyzers over the road into the basket. We moved it to the current location because of homeowner complaints. We have not had any since moving the basket and the double mando doesnt seem to cause too many yard hits. Most players are throwing hyzers'ish there and few are able to penetrate the oak/butterfly bushes or throw the distance required to reach the yards. The right side Mando actually prevents people from throwing big overstable hyzers over the road from the tee and reduces yard discs.

Hole 16 Tweener. For a shorter layout I want to put a basket over the walking path to the right. You would throw from the long 16 anny or sidearm 350' up into the woods for a par 3. Then there would just be a 100' walk to the back of 17s's tee pad. That would eliminate 600' of transition on the short course. Then maybe we could play long 12 again in tournaments :)
 
played stumpy for the first time in forever yesterday. well done there, mark.
 
The field is used by a number of different people including people that play OFTEN vollyball with wierd balls only using their feet.

If they could just get some TV coverage and stop stealing from the Ams to give to the Pros!!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=tak...xLcqI0QHynIGQCQ&ved=0CGQQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=936

Sepak-Takraw-12260.bmp


Charlotte - Takraw Worlds 2013: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takraw
 
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1978, thanks for the history and explanation behind the theory of the hole design on Nevin #14. My drive flew basically straight and was stopped by the fence, and I was just picturing some stronger players continuing out into the street and yards and I'm enthused to hear that doesn't happen often. :thmbup:

Also, for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's a picture of the teepad of hole#12 at R.L. Smith. Seriously, this is WAY nicer than the deck I had at my last house I owned during the early 2000s.

474b4ca7.jpg


Also, the oversized "air freshener" hanging from the sewer pipe around hole#7 or 8 was just about the funniest thing I've seen at a disc golf course EVER. I can't remember what was printed on it, but many guffaws were shared when we saw it. I really, really, wish I had taken a picture of it. :\
 
I think the tournament is over people. :|

This was the largest event in disc golf history and people still want to talk about it. Feel free to ignore this thread if it bothers you so much.

Whoever suggested earlier in this thread banning this guy, I am starting to agree. :thmbup:
 
This was the largest event in disc golf history and people still want to talk about it. Feel free to ignore this thread if it bothers you so much.

Whoever suggested earlier in this thread banning this guy, I am starting to agree. :thmbup:

:thmbup:
 
Bradford has some of the nicest benches I've ever seen too. Made from huge pieces of lumber and stained nicely. Hopefully they don't get tagged by sharpies with pictures of weed and dick jokes like all the benches at Kilborne. :)
 
Just wanted to take the time to echo many of Jeff's sentiments regarding RL Smith ... a very fun course that I wish I had played better than I did. Loved Hornet's Nest and Kilborne - two "classic" disc golf courses that I'd play all the time if I lived in Charlotte. Winget was out of the way, but very fun with a lot of good birdie opportunities and short technical par 4s. I did not enjoy Angry Beaver at all, so I won't spend the time complaining about it.
 
As a Charlotte resident, I play Kilborne, Eastway and Sugaw the most. They're all within about 2 miles of each other and my golfin buddies live near them, so that's where we typically end up when we play in the evenings or do a marathon on the weekends. Eastway is perfect for testing out new plastic with the 2 soccer fields to practice on and the wide open holes to throw some bombs.

The Worlds were the best thing to ever happen for a disc golfer in Charlotte b/c the courses are in such great shape now, plus they've added new courses like RL and Bradford. Not to mention my other favorites...Reedy, Renny, Hornets Nest...

We went out and played the championship 9-hole course at Hornets Nest on Sunday while everything was still set up with the out of bounds markers, ropes, hay bails, etc. I shot a +3, which should've been better had I not chained out on several short putts. Amazingly, me and my 2 buddies all deuced the island green. I believe that was hole #6? I saw pro's getting 5's and 6's on that hole the day before, so it was pretty awesome to have all 3 of us birdie it.
 
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