Pick the most stable disc

[optidiscic]

Exactly as AP said. I believe stability is an absolute. When a disc is flying straight at a straight release, it is stable. When it is anhyzering on an anhyzer realease, it is stable. When it is hyzering on a hyzer release, it is stable. When a top is spinning, it is stable. All are the same. Your way of thinking about it is a disc is most stable when it is falling to the ground.

NO my way of thinking has nothing to do with the flightline.....my way of thinking has to do with how it resists turning over. The more it is prone to turning over the more unstable it is. The more it resists turning the more stable it is. It's just a wide continuum and some discs might fall in the center of this continuum and fly straighter under certain conditions....but take those discs and throw them into a mountain updraft downhill at a ski resort and watch your beloved little stable is straight paradigm explode....meanwhile my continuum will still hold merit as the discs I consider more stable will still resist turn moreso than those that are less stable.

I think of it in terms of disc characteristics which are not apt to change....you think of it in terms of flight paths which can change under different conditions.

A teebird will flip when thrown downhill into a wind...is it suddenly understable now?

 

[CwAlbino]

NO my way of thinking has nothing to do with the flightline.....my way of thinking has to do with how it resists turning over. The more it is prone to turning over the more unstable it is. The more it resists turning the more stable it is. It's just a wide continuum and some discs might fall in the center of this continuum and fly straighter under certain conditions....but take those discs and throw them into a mountain updraft downhill at a ski resort and watch your beloved little stable is straight paradigm explode....meanwhile my continuum will still hold merit as the discs I consider more stable will still resist turn moreso than those that are less stable.

I think of it in terms of disc characteristics which are not apt to change....you think of it in terms of flight paths which can change under different conditions.

A teebird will flip when thrown downhill into a wind...is it suddenly understable now?

My farthest throw is with a comet, 730 feet down a ski hill, into a crosswind. It never turned over or faded.

As for your "definition" being resistant to turn. A teebird is just as resistant to turn as a force is, the difference is the speed of the disc, and the LSS of the disc. I threw an anhyzer the other day into a headwind with my force, does it make it less stable now?

Wind amount and direction are outside forces on the disc that shouldn't even be put into account when talking about the stability of the disc. What I believe wind does, is not only enhances the high speed turn of the disc, but acts as a torque-induced gyroscopic precession, adding torque on the wing of the disc. Not every wind will be a dead headwind, straight on into the nose of the disc without having more impact on one side or the other.

Say you have a disc with 0 HSS and 3 LSS, now you have a headwind and the numbers of the flight of the disc are now changed to -1.5 HSS and 1.5 LSS due to the force on the disc. If wind was dead on, or straight behind, then the disc's stability ratings would not change, it would just react like it is going faster. A teebird thrown in dead wind that would go 300 ft now in a 15mph headwind is being thrown like it's going 15mph faster, but the spin is still the same. Higher velocity to lower spin ratio is the cause of turn, and a big factor in OAT, and can be described through the advance ratio.

 

[sidewinding]

Another thing we have learned from this little exercise is that this is not a regional thing as Apothecary suggested in "the other thread". I see several people that are from the same regions yet in different camps on this issue. The Leopard people, however, are in a camp of their own...possibly the most stubborn group I have ever run across.

 

[optidiscic]

So your stable discs are completely resistant to any headwind and don't change their flightlines when they are overpowered....interesting. This flies in the face of physics and hard science but I guess this is your paradigm.

 

[tmahan]

The Leopard people, however, are in a camp of their own...possibly the most stubborn group I have ever run across.

There really are different Leopards. I've seen biscoe throw his at least 350' dead straight (stable). My Champ Leo is pretty resistant to turn, but my SE Leo flips like mad.

 

[craftsman]

With all these non- dg examples of stable, I'd like to see an example of under or over

While I can see, and understand the logic used, having terms that only apply to a handfull of discs, then get confusing when comparing within the mold- do me no good.

CW, while I respect your efforts, and completly see where you're coming from, I just don't see them as meaningfully terms.
I'm a comet thrower myself, so I know all about what true stable is. Still I find flippy/stable as better terms. If I was to try and buy a used comet off you, your terms wouldn't do any good for me- I already know how comets fly, I'd want to know, comet thrower to comet thrower, if it was stable or flippy for a comet.

 

[tmahan]

so discuss, all you guys are doing is telling the other person they are wrong. that's not a discussion.

It's not arguing it's contradiction.

 

[craftsman]

To those tired of this thread, stop lurking or stop commenting- there are tons of threads I never click- no ones forcing you.

IMO, the difference in opionion stems from those that get their info IRL and those that get their info online.

 

[CwAlbino]

So your stable discs are completely resistant to any headwind and don't change their flightlines when they are overpowered....interesting. This flies in the face of physics and hard science but I guess this is your paradigm.

No, you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. In the most simple sentence, Wind can be off axis torque.

With all these non- dg examples of stable, I'd like to see an example of under or over

While I can see, and understand the logic used, having terms that only apply to a handfull of discs, then get confusing when comparing within the mold- do me no good.

CW, while I respect your efforts, and completly see where you're coming from, I just don't see them as meaningfully terms.
I'm a comet thrower myself, so I know all about what true stable is. Still I find flippy/stable as better terms. If I was to try and buy a used comet off you, your terms wouldn't do any good for me- I already know how comets fly, I'd want to know, comet thrower to comet thrower, if it was stable or flippy for a comet.

My current comet is a slightly overstable comet. It is not flippy, and not yet stable.

To further that, I tried to throw a soft finesse anhyzer with it today and it flexed out at about 225, and faded.

 

[optidiscic]

CW I'm curious what ski hill u made that 730 ft throw. I'm not doubting you did it I'm just curious where it was. It's actually relevant to our discussion.

 

[CwAlbino]

CW I'm curious what ski hill u made that 730 ft throw. I'm not doubting you did it I'm just curious where it was. It's actually relevant to our discussion.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=307

and for any doubt
http://i56.tinypic.com/2iudftu.jpg

 

[optidiscic]

Very nice throw. I'm not doubting it I was wondering if it was at higher altitude and thus creating a more stable flight due to environmental conditions. I would assume minn is not high enough to have an altitude to cause a change in stability. Which way was the wind blowing l to r or r to l I'm assuming u r a rhbh thrower

 

[Jbowdown]

Let's put the Hyland Ski Hill in perspective. While it's a very fun throw, that hill is soooo steep you can almost make it to the pin (710ft) with a putter...

I usually throw an Eagle-X but I've had a X-Buzzz past the pin before.

 

[wolito]

How in the heck is a Buzzz almost as stable as a Firebird? Seriously? Firebird for sure!

 

[CwAlbino]

Let's put the Hyland Ski Hill in perspective. While it's a very fun throw, that hill is soooo steep you can almost make it to the pin (710ft) with a putter...

I usually throw an Eagle-X but I've had a X-Buzzz past the pin before.

It's actually easier to get a slower disc down there than a fast one.

 

[jtencer]

Do you get an updraft from a head wind?

 

[optidiscic]

So any stable disc by your definition will not flip regardless of airspeed will fly straight if thrown flat?

 

[optidiscic]

An updraft moves up a slope from below creating an immense quantity of air below a disc and increasing glide in ways no headwind could match

 

[jtencer]

My point is it's a head wind. The slope turns it into an updraft.:thmbup:

 

[woodstock]

Never thrown any of these discs, dont know dont care.