Player attitudes & penalty enforcement

[pauldst]

Watching the 2016 St. Louis Open, Nikko calls a foot fault on one of the other players. My first thought was that he was being a jerk, and I bet the other player was steamed. Then I thought about it and argued with myself about that being what was supposed to happen. Still, not playing tournaments myself, I was wondering, how do players react when things like foot faults are called?

I'm sure it depends some on the players involved, but do the players called out generally get mad at the one doing the calling? How often do they own up to it? Do the other players on the card typically get upset, start mistrusting, get annoyed, etc.? What goes on in the group dynamics?

 

[swhite]

For anyone interested, the foot fault occurs at about the 11:30 mark in the video.

I am not speaking from a players perspective, because I have never played in a PDGA event, but every player wants all involved to follow the rules. There is no umpire that is going make a call when a rule is broken; it is up to the other players to call each other on any rule infraction.

Probably, at that moment, the player that foot faults will be unhappy. But this is far better than if rules violations are not addressed, because eventually no one will bother to follow the rules if they are not enforced.

 

[roadtripstuff]

It's just part of the game. A lot of people don't call the rules because the don't want to be "that guy" but you should call infractions as you see them. Actually next year there is a rule that says you must watch while other players are throwing to enforce any rules violations. If you break a rule you should expect to be called on it, it's not the end of the world and the other player is just doing what they are supposed to do.

 

[Moose33]

There are a lot of times you see boarderline calls not made, so when you see it called it can be shocking.

I actually had a stroke called on me for throwing a disc with no intent back to my bag after marking my lie.

The way the rule is worded now, I could have gotten out of it, but at the time I just had to wear it:

But, though I've only ever called one violation, that one instance made me much more cautious. So yeah, it seems like a punk move, but as long as it's not malicious and is a clear violation it's fine imo.

 

[pauldst]

For anyone interested, the foot fault occurs at about the 11:30 mark in the video.

That's strange, when I watched the video 11:19 is when the throw with the fault was about to happen.

 

[DiscJunkie]

I have not played in many PDGA events, but I will call a rules violation, and foot faults, and falling putts, and challenge a person's called score, and talk to people who need to be informed about the rules.
It's important to call it in a way that is non-confrontational and informative.

There have also been times when I have not enforced the rules strictly:
Like when a person is in last place or way out of "cashing" and having a very bad day.
Like when no advantage is gained (this is the time to be informative, not rigid).

I know there are people out there who think all rules should be enforced all the time.
You are entitled to disagree with my approach - but at the level of competition where I live, at the end of the day, it's just throwing a Frisbee.

 

[roadtripstuff]

I have not played in many PDGA events, but I will call a rules violation, and foot faults, and falling putts, and challenge a person's called score, and talk to people who need to be informed about the rules.
It's important to call it in a way that is non-confrontational and informative.

There have also been times when I have not enforced the rules strictly:
Like when a person is in last place or way out of "cashing" and having a very bad day.
Like when no advantage is gained (this is the time to be informative, not rigid).

I know there are people out there who think all rules should be enforced all the time.
You are entitled to disagree with my approach - but at the level of competition where I live, at the end of the day, it's just throwing a Frisbee.

I do agree, a lot of times if it is a new player especially and they aren't really gaining an advantage I will wait until after the round and maybe just explain what rules they were violating and explain the rules. That way it doesn't frustrate them and turn them off to the game. I think you are correct there are times when it's less important for sure. I feel like that is still within the spirit of the game.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I know that guy Nate Wegryn, local pro round these parts. Throws a mile & really laid back and friendly, I doubt he was that frazzled. He plays super aggressive lines and is fun to watch, glad to see him out there making it happen.

 

[NegaSnapples]

To the OP, if you plan on calling other people out for rule infractions, just be prepared to be more scrutinized throughout the round by that person and possibly others on the card. I saw two guys go back and forth some one tournament round. They both kept watching the other like a hawk after the first guy called him on a foot fault. I think about 4 violations were called during the round, so it's not like it was totally absurd. Just uncomfortable.

That's the only reason I usually hesitate to call anything if it's minimal or I think it doesn't benefit the player at all.

Side note... I also once played a tourney round where a guy slipped off the tee, threw a completely awful drive, and then got upset when no one on the card called him on a foot fault.

 

[Lazerface]

This is why I like the new rule regarding the area behind a mini. As others have stated a foot foul will now seem more "blatant" during play and therefore we will see more called. I hated warnings, but I also ignored minor foot faults because they happen ALL THE TIME. I'm sure I'm guilty of them, especially on surfaces that are wet, or rocky/rooty, or both. Sometimes it's out of the players control (yes, we could throw stand stills every time the playing surface is less than perfect, but that's just dumb) It would be like calling holding during every NFL play. It would ruin the game.

Getting mad about being called on a legit foot fault is dbaggery and if I called someone and they cried about it I wouldn't be affected in the least.

It's funny cause the majority of the players I've talked to say they hate the new rule, but I think it's one of the best rule changes in a while.

 

[Golden Tuna]

1. Foot faults usually need to be seconded by another player on the card before being assessed
2. It is a re-throw without stroke penalty

I'll echo other's sentiments about time and place. When talking to experienced players it is more of an FYI - hey I think your foot slipped there. When talking to new players, I usually explain that nature of the rule and try to cut them some slack if they are still learning.
I also explain that some people can be real jerks about these infractions as a heads up.

I also like the new rule clarifications. I understand that some people don't like it, but I think it will help improve the integrity of tournament rounds. MOre players should be watching for and enforcing the rules.

If you watch the Nantucket open footage, Nate Sexton calls Austin Turner on a (would be) foot fault. But it is done casually and without malice, so I think it was probably well received.

 

[art_vandelay]

Do you guys call foot faults during casual rounds? I don't see the point when there is nothing really on the line. I suppose it's just good form and good practice for "live" rounds to not foot fault but some times you do. Who cares.

During an event I would only say something to someone who was clearly trying to gain an advantage and he would have to do it several times. And then there's the person who has no idea how to stand. In that case you just show them but not call them. I try to think of the spirit of the game more than the actual written rule.

 

[F. Howl]

1. Foot faults usually need to be seconded by another player on the card before being assessed
2. It is a re-throw without stroke penalty
....

1) To those that have called a foot fault, do you guys keep your eyes glued to your opponent's mini and were you able to get it seconded? (I never have my eyes on my cardmate's lie, and I'm pretty sure the other players on the cards I've been on aren't closely monitoring it either...) I probably should start paying more attention to it.

2) In 2018 it'll be an automatic stroke and no re-throw though, right?

 

[Golden Tuna]

Do you guys call foot faults during casual rounds? I don't see the point when there is nothing really on the line. I suppose it's just good form and good practice for "live" rounds to not foot fault but some times you do. Who cares.

During an event I would only say something to someone who was clearly trying to gain an advantage and he would have to do it several times.

In terms of the rules, I address each lie the same way I would address it in a PDGA event. Good practice makes good habit... If I get a complicated lie in a casual round, it is good practice for the inevitable complicated lie in tournament play. How often do you get a chance to practice complicated situations otherwise?

Agree on only correcting those that are trying to gain an advantage or that don't know the rule.

1) To those that have called a foot fault, do you guys keep your eyes glued to your opponent's mini and were you able to get it seconded? (I never have my eyes on my cardmate's lie, and I'm pretty sure the other players on the cards I've been on aren't closely monitoring it either...) I probably should start paying more attention to it.

2) In 2018 it'll be an automatic stroke and no re-throw though, right?

I've never (seriously) called a foot fault on anyone. But, yeah, I watch their footwork. When addressing others' footing, I try to consider whether they were trying to gain an advantage, or if they just missed by a few inches. In most cases, an inch here or there is not going to have a huge impact on the outcome of the throw...

2) I believe you're right about that rule change in 2018

 

[VictorB]

Do you guys call foot faults during casual rounds? I don't see the point when there is nothing really on the line. I suppose it's just good form and good practice for "live" rounds to not foot fault but some times you do. Who cares.

I've heard this argument before, and I don't really get it. Is there another established set of rules to follow? I'm not going to stroke someone for a blatant violation during a casual round obviously, but if they foot fault (in a way that is gaining an advantage, I don't call it otherwise) I'll point it out and move on. People should know when they are making play mistakes.

And yes, a confirmed foot fault will be a stroke penalty with no re-throw starting in 2018.

 

[art_vandelay]

I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't pay attention to what peoples feet are doing during a casual round and I barely pay attention during a league or tournament round. Maybe I'm not taking full responsibility as a player but I don't think it makes a difference one way or another on 99% of lies. Putting foot faults are the only thing I would think twice about.

 

[Rondpitt]

Do what you want on casual round,

But, on any event that has score cards/places/prizes I do my best to remind myself that I am but one person on one card with the simple expectation that ALL folk on ALL cards will be playing by the same rules as I.

For that reason I have noted ONLY TWO TIMES that a rules violation should be called. First, when the person violated the rule knew exactly what they were doing when they broke the rules, and secondly, when the person violating the rule had no idea what they were doing when they broke the rules.

I will gladly give lesson on how to do the above and not be a Richard. Not that hard actually.
Ron

 

[art_vandelay]

It's a different story when someone is doing things on purpose i.e. actively cheating. Someone on the card will usually say something, but it's never me because I'm not confrontational by nature and it's easier to let it go. Lazy, I know. I just make a mental note and try to avoid those peeps in the future. This kind of thing should not lead to confrontation but it often does.