Problems throwing on a downward angle

[Melonhusk]

Hi everyone, was wondering if anyone had any similar experience or insight on a problem I've been noticing with throwing downhill. I don't really think I used to have this problem, but I've made a lot of form changes recently and my throw used to be pretty much entirely arm. Things are a lot better now overall, but I'm finding I sort of have to relearn a lot of things.

Anyway, what I find nowadays is throwing anywhere from flat to high is pretty intuitive on any hyzer/anhyzer angle: I just reach back further down the higher I want the shot to go. I find that when reaching back high so I can throw down, however, no matter what I try it seems like half the time the shot comes out of my hand as a nose up hyzer pulled up and right. It almost feels like throwing an ultimate-style airbounce, where I can feel it come on a downward trajectory and then sort of swoop up at the end. Am I just not following through low enough? Am I thinking about changing shot height the wrong way entirely?

 

[aphilso1]

Make sure you are throwing parallel to the ground. I don't personally reach back higher to throw downward, but I do make sure my release point is on a lower trajectory. The only time I intentionally reach back higher is for an anhyzer release or roller.

Also, be mindful of thumb pressure and placement; I don't throw nose up often, but when I do it is almost always caused by a lazy thumb.

 

[sidewinder22]

I try to match the slope via spine angle/balance so the swing is on plane w/ slope.

 

[Melonhusk]

Ah interesting, yeah it made me wonder whether or not there was something just sort of mechanically bad about changing my backswing, because I know reaching back high can cause that sort of "dip" in the swing and lead to nose-up issues for people. I'll have to try thinking of it as more of a body posture thing than an arm thing.

I'm also just now remembering some nugget from some video of a round, two pros were discussing how one of them was imitating Ken Climo on shots he wanted to stay low, kicking his trailing leg high and bending his front knee into the brace. I think it might have been Paul McBeth who was being filmed. Maybe that's going for the same effect you're talking about SW? Does kicking the back leg up to tilt the spine forward make any sense?

EDIT: Here it is, at 11 minutes:

It was more about keeping a shot low to the ground, not about throwing it down, but maybe it still applies!

 

[txmxer]

For me, this type of issue is more often than not related to my mind set for the throw rather than the technique. Basically, what are you targeting with the throw? Are you expecting the perfect throw rather than the average throw and setting yourself up for failure?

 

[Melonhusk]

The mental side is definitely huge; I don't know if I have a specific block about throwing downhill that sets me up for failure when I try, but after going to the course yesterday evening and this morning I did notice that if I just sort of had that downward angle in mind during my x step my body seemed to know what to do without placing any part of my body in any different position consciously. It's still less intuitive than throwing uphill for me, for some reason, but just something to keep working at I guess!

 

[armiller]

I like the "parallel to the ground" comment, and also SW22's comment about the spine. Teepads can make things a bit complicated, because they are sometimes oriented a bit downward, but usually flat.

There are a few things I think about when throwing downhill. One thing that helped me a ton was in line with SW22's spine and swing plane comment. That's an absolute must: practically, I tell myself to keep my shoulder down. Another thing that helps me is to consciously keep the nose down. If I don't, it's very easy for shots to stall out.

Another factor is that a good downhill throw will tend to act a little more understable. So if I'm deciding between two discs for a downhill shot, I'll go with the more overstable option.

You mentioned reachback quite a bit. I have never consciously changed my reachback while throwing up or downhill. I think adjusting the spine angle and swing plane is the ticket.

So in summary:
1) adjust swing plane
2) throw nose down
3) use a disc on the more overstable side

 

[txmxer]

Playing a 160' downhill hole today. Lot of woods either side and a natural triple mando halfway formed by a big tree/branch.

It's all mental for me. Not that form doesn't matter, but my form follows my mentality on the throw.

The hole before is just the opposite. 200' uphill, tight tee box area, then pretty open. I've been flinging it right in to the trees for a while. Because it's uphill, it plays a little longer than 200', but Mentally I'm thinking I should park this. I throw harder than necessary and grip lock. Backed it down—I was short and left with 30' putt I missed, but that's way better than a 100' scramble at a bad angle.

 

[Thr33putt]

My home course has a 470 ft hole that plays downhill, probably 25 feet or so. Worth mentioning that all the elevation change happens right off the tee, so errant shots are bad news. I've tried for years to get my weight more forward etc to get the angle right, but have accepted that I'm just not that talented & just throw something stable enough to fight out of being thrown anny &downhill.

 

[armiller]

It's all mental for me. Not that form doesn't matter, but my form follows my mentality on the throw.

I guess all disc golf is mental. Understanding your form (and how to avoid the most common mistakes) and disc flight should help with the mental game. I think that's exactly what we're talking about here. Adjust your swing plane, your nose angle, and your disc selection, and you've already done a good job adjusting for the mental part of the throw. It also helps to take into account those previous experiences, in case you need to adjust somehow.

 

[Melonhusk]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone, as an update played a round today with some elevation changes and never once consciously changed my mechanics, just sort of had in mind what I wanted and trusted my body to do the work. Blows my mind how easy it was and how well it worked. Didn't get every angle right, but no more nose up surprise hyzers. I'd really like to see on film what happens differently on different elevations; I guess it must be just the slightest angling of the body to alter the swing, but it's still so wild to me what sheer visualization will do.

 

[txmxer]

I guess all disc golf is mental. Understanding your form (and how to avoid the most common mistakes) and disc flight should help with the mental game. I think that's exactly what we're talking about here. Adjust your swing plane, your nose angle, and your disc selection, and you've already done a good job adjusting for the mental part of the throw. It also helps to take into account those previous experiences, in case you need to adjust somehow.

Not all problems have the same solution.

When the problem is like this one—I was making a good throw, now I'm not, then it makes sense the issue might be mental. It could be something else.

If you throw 300' and want to throw 400', it's not mental. If you have a particular hole you pull to the right, that sounds mental.

Regardless, most of us can improve form, but not all problems are caused by form.

 

[armiller]

Not all problems have the same solution.

When the problem is like this one—I was making a good throw, now I'm not, then it makes sense the issue might be mental. It could be something else.

If you throw 300' and want to throw 400', it's not mental. If you have a particular hole you pull to the right, that sounds mental.

Regardless, most of us can improve form, but not all problems are caused by form.

It sounds like we're either splitting hairs or simply misunderstanding one another. A big part of the mental game is making adjustments when things aren't going right or when you know something is a weakness. At some point, throwing uphill and downhill were both big weaknesses for me. I've been in West Virginia for over 2 years now, and that has forced me to adjust, particularly for hills of all sorts. I won't claim that playing up or down is a strength, but I've certainly figured out a lot of things, both for very steep slopes and for gentler ones. (Being in Oklahoma similarly helped my "mental" wind game.) If you want to continue thinking this is a mental issue, I can't see how that helps. Instead, I think it's more productive to embrace that it's a weakness (mental or otherwise) and make adjustments, whether that's somehow tweaking your throw or doing any number of other things. Make your weakness a strength by adapting.

 

[txmxer]

It sounds like we're either splitting hairs or simply misunderstanding one another. A big part of the mental game is making adjustments when things aren't going right or when you know something is a weakness. At some point, throwing uphill and downhill were both big weaknesses for me. I've been in West Virginia for over 2 years now, and that has forced me to adjust, particularly for hills of all sorts. I won't claim that playing up or down is a strength, but I've certainly figured out a lot of things, both for very steep slopes and for gentler ones. (Being in Oklahoma similarly helped my "mental" wind game.) If you want to continue thinking this is a mental issue, I can't see how that helps. Instead, I think it's more productive to embrace that it's a weakness (mental or otherwise) and make adjustments, whether that's somehow tweaking your throw or doing any number of other things. Make your weakness a strength by adapting.

Not my intent to say my comment is right and others are wrong here. Just to present another possibility of what the root problem is. There are many good points being made.

I've been dealing with and trying to improve my wind game. It is an extremely frustrating challenge.

 

[Thr33putt]

Paul Ulibarri says just throw a hyzer =]

https://youtu.be/WxNwpr7Evw0

I don't think I have it in me to throw a downhill hyzer flip lol