[Vibram] R419B and 420B testers

[Joner11]

I got to throw each of these today thanks to the local Vibram tester. We also played a few holes together so I got to see them in action. My experience is pretty much on par with what the others have said.

The 420 is seriously OS, seemingly with no turn at all. On lower power throws or with any hyzer, it flies to the ground like a magnet, finishing at almost a 90 degree angle. For those of you who have been clamoring for a more OS Vibram disc, this is it in spades.

The 419 is the exact opposite, seriously US. I max out around 325', and don't have anything over speed 8 in my bag. And yet, I was able to turn this thing easier than my Underworlds: it turned for me and didn't come back on a low power throw with a slight hyzer release. Personally, I'm excited by the prospect of this thing: I feel like it could potentially be a great first distance driver for someone like myself. Once dialed in, the distance potential seems great for lower-power or finesse throwers. The tester I played with had some trouble dialing it at first, but managed to throw some awesomely straight tunnel shots once he knew how to finesse. I hope they don't alter this disc significantly in response to tester complaints: I know really US discs aren't very popular, especially with more advanced players, but for us newbies and noodle arms they can be a boon. Also worth keeping in mind that the 419s seem to be coming in lighter weights: the one I threw today was also 164.

One final thought: for wider-rimmed drives, these are quite comfortable in the hand. As unfamiliar with such drivers as I am, I felt fine holding and throwing these.



Definitely skips like you'd expect. The tester threw it flat and low on City Park hole 11 over the OB line, and it originally looked like it wasn't going to come back b/c it was too low to the ground. But that sucker had a good skip (on a shorter, lower power throw) up and in bounds. It was pretty sweet.



The 420 should be able to handle pretty much any wind.

Your review was awesome! Thanks for the excellent feedback. You answered all my questions and now these discs just need to be PDGA approved, named, and sent out to me! Can't wait to throw them.

 

[iacas]

For as OS as it is, the 420's fade kicks in fairly late on a full-powered flat release or when thrown anhyzer, meaning that the distance potential seems pretty good for such an OS disc.

Edit: In that respect my experience differs a bit from Erik's relayed above.

I haven't had time to mess around with throwing them on anhyzer lines or into really stiff winds (only ~15 MPH). What you say could very well be true. More testing is required, perhaps tomorrow.

 

[Qikly]

I think this may be a very regional look at the popularity of certain discs. I find that most advanced and higher players are actually more interested in understable discs than overstable. Understable requires less power and have greater range. Assuming rhbh, an understable disc is actually able to fade longer and farther left than an overstable disc. When thrown properly, ala hyzerflip, they can hold tight, long, and very specific lines in the forest.

If anything, I think overstable discs appeal to less experienced players because they they cover and compensate form flaws better. This can bred false confidence, especially in only a few select lines. Why else are seasoned players always trying to break in TeeBirds and Rocs and so forth to get them fly straight? Do not get me wrong, overstable discs are a necessity on windy days.

The problem with certain understable discs, especially in regards to the first Lace testers, is that there is a point that discs can be so understable that they cannot be predictable. Maybe these are the ones you are referring to that Advanced players do not like.

Yeah, obviously the situation is more nuanced than my over-generalization. I guess I'm just surprised by the amount of trash talk I see given to "flippy" discs, both locally and on the forums (terrible barometer, I know), for the exactly the reasons you gave: they certainly provide me with more control, possibilities, and distance.

Your review was awesome! Thanks for the excellent feedback. You answered all my questions and now these discs just need to be PDGA approved, named, and sent out to me! Can't wait to throw them.

Much appreciated! :thmbup: I know I like a ton of info, so I try to reciprocate when I can.

I haven't had time to mess around with throwing them on anhyzer lines or into really stiff winds (only ~15 MPH). What you say could very well be true. More testing is required, perhaps tomorrow.

Gotcha. Look forward to hearing more about your experience with them.

 

[Monkeypaws]

Hopefully that 419 will be released before the next Birdie Bash. Sounds like my kind of disc.

 

[Dan H.]

This is very exciting. All we need now is an overstable fairway and a Mobex!

 

[Hlasianguy06]

Honestly I need an understable mid as well, I can get by on the understable fairway with R419, but I NEED an understable mid.

 

[Colt]

Throw the ibex with some OAT, flip city

 

[Brodysseus]

The Ibex may not be understable, but it loves to hold an anny!

 

[StevenDodge]

And straight from Steve Dodge's mouth (or fingertips, as it were…), we can share any and all that we find in this testing process? Or is there still some things we're supposed to keep under an NDA of sorts, or something?

Tell the world!

 

[StevenDodge]

With putters... A LOT! As for the rest of their discs its give or take. I will say that for the durability and grip you won't find a better company. I throw mostly Lat64 so I personally like to see my discs glide for days which you won't get with Vibram. It's all personal preference really. Although I wish I did have a bag with nothing but Vibram for raining days, I wouldn't even bother bringing a towel with me lol.

Um, I suspect the Lace has demonstrated that if we want the discs to have glide, they will have glide. And speed. InBoundsDiscGolf.com rates the Lace as the farthest flying golf disc on the market.

The Ibex is the most forgiving, straightest flying mid ever made (in my opinion).

 

[Hlasianguy06]

Throw the ibex with some OAT, flip city

The Ibex may not be understable, but it loves to hold an anny!

Therein lies the problem, I need the sweeping turns that understable discs offer. With a disc as stable as the ibex it doesn't exhibit any turn, granted I can get it to track to the right for a short time before fading out when thrown flat, but on anhyzyers it doesn't finish much more right from where it started. OAT helps but it's so much more risk-reward than clean turnovers. Flicking has helped fill this spot for now but this is what id like to see next along with the mobex.

 

[Hlasianguy06]

The Ibex is the most forgiving, straightest flying mid ever made (in my opinion).

This! Couldn't have been said better. I still love my obex but the ibex is right there with it.

Fun lil' story, playing with my dad n his buddies yesterday I smashed the obex into a tree pretty much point blank, it clapped rim to rim lmao. If it was plastic I woulda' got smacked by it. Now this obex was beat to hell already (logo knocked out by jesus thorn tree I'm guessing) and broken in, but it still flies the same. gotta love vibram durability!

 

[Brodysseus]

Therein lies the problem, I need the sweeping turns that understable discs offer. With a disc as stable as the ibex it doesn't exhibit any turn, granted I can get it to track to the right for a short time before fading out when thrown flat, but on anhyzyers it doesn't finish much more right from where it started. OAT helps but it's so much more risk-reward than clean turnovers. Flicking has helped fill this spot for now but this is what id like to see next along with the mobex.

Totally understand. I would love for them to extend the Summit's flight into a Ubex and, especially, a fairway driver. I love my Traks! But, everyone describes them as Leopard like, but they are more stable than that. I'd call them neutral, but not understable.

/threaddrift /threadjack #mybad

 

[Hlasianguy06]

Whoops told that story twice

 

[hempies]

Totally understand. I would love for them to extend the Summit's flight into a Ubex and, especially, a fairway driver. I love my Traks! But, everyone describes them as Leopard like, but they are more stable than that. I'd call them neutral, but not understable.

/threaddrift /threadjack #mybad

Summit flight in a mid/fairway would be a thing of beauty.

 

[discreid]

Summit flight in a mid/fairway would be a thing of beauty.

It's called a Meteor.

 

[Joner11]

Summit flight in a mid/fairway would be a thing of beauty.

I heartily agree with you sir! Don't worry, I am sure Vibram will eventually make a Summit mid and Summit FWY.

 

[Monkeypaws]

The Ibex is the most forgiving, straightest flying mid ever made (in my opinion).

Love my Ibex, but I give a tip of the hat to the Warship and the Mako as straight and forgiving flyers. I've only thrown a Mako once, but I throw the Ibex and Warship a ton, and one thing for sure is i can range the Ibex better than just about any disc.

 

[Hlasianguy06]

It took awhile for me to give up my warship, just had to convince myself they were the same disc....kinda

 

[Monkeypaws]

It took awhile for me to give up my warship, just had to convince myself they were the same disc....kinda

I think the rubber gives you an uncanny feel for Vibram discs. The Warship was always longer, so I prefer it for driving, but my Ibex can do things my Warship can't.

Happy carrying both; they've each carved out a nice niche in my slowly evolving bag.