RowingBoats
Eagle Member
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To me, this reinforces the idea of pausing the shoulder rotation. Doing this will feel really bad, and might actually be injurious with early rotation/acceleration.
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Reach back era is over, long live the whip.
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
To me, this reinforces the idea of pausing the shoulder rotation. Doing this will feel really bad, and might actually be injurious with early rotation/acceleration.
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Backhand Pitch:
Jangle Chains
Newbie
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Please don't.
Backhand Pitch:
Now we are talking!!! Looking sweet Sidewinder!!!
Twistedhorse
Par Member
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does the heavy bottle drill help to achieve it?
Twistedhorse
Par Member
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Saw this, is he correct?
I'm not a great thrower, but I have done many sports over the years.
He's certainly correct that you cannot think your way through and tweak a throw in real time. It is a chain of events that happen quickly. You have to develop the entire chain of events as a continuous motion. You can break it down in to steps that you work through to reach the end result. Minor tweaks can have significant effects on the outcome.
I don't think this is so different than the "reach back". Just a different perspective. It is all about converting the bodies momentum to disk acceleration and final velocity at release.
One aspect I'm working on understanding is the handle of the whip. When you plant your lead foot, I'm thinking the "handle" extends up through your hips. The whip begins at your torso/abdomen and then runs through your shoulder/arm/elbow/wrist/finger tips.
If you think about the pop of a whip, there is a forward action and a second action in reverse. So, you have the low frequency major wave, followed by a high frequency faster travelling wave. The two waves meet at the tip of the whip causing the snap.
How to duplicate that in the throw?
You "see" it in big throwers in the plant, the rotate and the release. I say "see" it, because it's very fast and i find it challenging to find that micro snap or disc turbo boost at the last fraction of a second prior to release.
Based on all I read/watch, the difference between 300' and 500' is ~20 mph and that 20 mph happens in the last fraction of a second of the throw. The snap. How does one impart that additional force in the last microsecond of a throw? You aren't going to do it cognitively in real time. All the puzzle pieces have to add up to final result.
Sorry for the rambling post. This is something I think about a lot.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Yes. But Stokley's point is that you can't focus on the last second because the last second is only important if the rest of the mechanics are sound. AND if the rest of the mechanics are sound then you don't need to focus on the last second. Like an 'a-ha' moment ("there is no spoon" -Matrix).
I think the difference between 300 feet and 500 feet is general effort. I've seen countless others and myself at the 300 mark on video and it just looks like sliw motion. Then, as they and myself have improved it just speeds up- no major difference with mechanics besides a few tweaks, just getting faster with the mechanics. That "snap" isn't some magical threshold but is linear and gradual. As you develop more torque the snap becomes more apparent until one day you just notice it. The truth is you had it all along it was just so gradual you didn't really notice it. And so it is with distance. You font go out into the field one day and magically go from 300 feet to 500 feet. It's a slow gradual buildup to there. Why? Because fast twitch muscles don't suddenly appear, you have to gradually build them up.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
I'm only going to ask if you know who Scott Stokley is, just in case he seems like a random guy off the Internet.
I've met Scott Stokely many times, if not for Climo he'd have a few Worlds titles.
UhhNegative
Eagle Member
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- Mar 28, 2016
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Sorry it's just not true. If that were the case we would only see the Garrett Gurthie's of the world throwing big bombs. But people like Simon and Eagle, who admittedly are weaklings, can throw just as far (almost). It may be true that your body can auto-adjust overtime to be more efficient, and that may even happen subconciously, like an iterative process. But at a certain point you just hit a ceiling if you don't change fundamental timing/body positioning. I used to be a bodybuilder, didn't make me throw 400' automatically though my strength/speed was certainly good. You can only muscle/athleticism yourself so far. You can't just go out and throw every day and magically hit 500' if you put in enough reps. You will improve, yes, but you will have a ceiling dependent on your form. You'll find out soon
Sorry it's just not true. If that were the case we would only see the Garrett Gurthie's of the world throwing big bombs. But people like Simon and Eagle, who admittedly are weaklings, can throw just as far (almost). It may be true that your body can auto-adjust overtime to be more efficient, and that may even happen subconciously, like an iterative process. But at a certain point you just hit a ceiling if you don't change fundamental timing/body positioning. I used to be a bodybuilder, didn't make me throw 400' automatically though my strength/speed was certainly good. You can only muscle/athleticism yourself so far. You can't just go out and throw every day and magically hit 500' if you put in enough reps. You will improve, yes, but you will have a ceiling dependent on your form. You'll find out soon
Simon and Eagle aren't weaklings when it comes to the disc gold throw. Their bodies rotate very fast and the mass of the disc weighs a lot and you have to be strong in the right areas to hold on and turn fast. Pushup strength and throwing a disc strength are completely different muscle firings. Let me ask you this- why is it that men can throw farther on average by 100-200 feet over women? Because of muscular ability.
Once a person attains the correct mechanics they m7st develop the muscular ability to then throw far and that does take reps.
Like the other day- I was throwing, some frost and snow on the ground and I slipped just slightly going into brace and it set off a whole bad sequence and the disc hyzerss way in the air, fluttered the whole time and still managed to go 300 feet. Now, 3 months ago a 300 feet shot would of taken precision and everything clicking right. Now it happens on a mistake. Why? Because muscular ability is as great or greater than anything else. The disc was able to go 300 feet because there was enough fast twitch trained muscle firings to snap it out there.
I have started to train in my garage with training fast twitch muscles and already I'm seeing pretty substantial gains. You are right that everyone has their own ceilings. Its my belief most don't come close to their ceiling because they lack the effort to put in the work to see their ceiling.
UhhNegative
Eagle Member
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You find a way to agree with me but phrase it in a way where it looks like you disagree. I never said one couldn't increase their fast twitch muscles and improve their distance. I can also throw with my bad form and reach 350-375'. But it's only part of the equation. You will see. You are approaching the asymptote you have built for yourself.
And why can Paige Pierce throw further than a lot of men? She's got good form
. Surely her strength ceiling is still limited by being a woman.
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