Rules question, unclearable lake

[billnchristy]

Lets say there is a lake with a 350' carry and most people cannot make that carry and there is really no way to play the hole safe.

**Lets skip the bad hole debate please**

During non-tournament play the rule is in place that you can play to the line and take 2 strokes to the drop zone across the lake...I am imagining this would not be legal in tournament play?

You could, however, throw a disc in the lake and take the drop across the lake correct?

Basically what I just said would be the same as just taking the drop...

Just curious as it will pertain to the future.

 

[optidiscic]

Interesting. I would say a player could just take the circle stroke and play from the drop zone w/o the throw

 

[Cgkdisc]

The rule at the IDGC Steady Ed course, including tournament play, is if you are afraid to play from the Blue tee because you can't carry the water, you can go to the shorter Red tee and be throwing your third shot without having to throw your disc in the lake and potentially lose it.

 

[optidiscic]

The rule at the IDGC Steady Ed course, including tournament play, is if you are afraid to play from the Blue tee because you can't carry the water, you can go to the shorter Red tee and be throwing your third shot without having to throw your disc in the lake and potentially lose it.

Chuck at Maple Hill there are several long water holes with long and not so long positions and then drop zones....even the shorter positions are a bit intimidating....is it up to the TD or course guidelines to do this or is it covered by PDGA rules?

 

[Cgkdisc]

No special PDGA rules other than the TD or course pro specifying the options when players go OB, especially when there's a drop zone. Course design guidelines indicate that no one at the Red level or lower should be forced to throw over water deeper than about 18 inches with potentially a route that can play around the water if desired.

 

[billnchristy]

Just wanted to make sure that options like that do not invalidate things.

Thanks guys!

 

[DiscJunkie]

That kind of ruling is totally up to the TD.
I can't think of any PDGA rule of play that would cover.
One would hope that the TD is sensitive and smart enough not to force Ams to throw 350' over water without a drop zone.
What a horrible design, though. (Sorry, had to say it.)

 

[zenbot]

At the '09 Coyote Classic we had a very intense downhill hole. There was an optional drop zone for 1 stroke. We cleared it through the PDGA first.

If someone throws into the water they would have to take the shot 1 meter from where it went OB and not on the other side of the lake.

 

[U_NICED_ME]

^^What Zenbot said. If you don't clear the water hazard, you have to play from where the shot went OB; in this case in front of the pond.

There would have to be a drop zone though, I can't imagine there wouldn't be. There's only one similar hole I've played it is 333 ft, but most think longer. I have to throw down to in front of the pond then over for 3.

Bill, are you saying there's no way to play up to the pond?

 

[U_NICED_ME]

Oh, CGK...I did not know that. That's good info.

 

[DavidSauls]

If all the TD has done is designate a drop zone for discs in the pond, you're stuck with throwing one disc in the pond.

One simple thing the TD can do, in many cases, is not only have a drop zone for the pond, but declare the tee-side of the pond, or at least the area right in front of the tee, as O.B. with the same drop zone. No special rule involved.

The real danger is a poor hole design AND failure of TD to make suitable arrangements for it.

 

[billnchristy]

You can play upto the pond but there is no way to short cut it but it is one of the damn sweetest holes in the world and this is coming from someone who would take the chicken S way out and take the 2 strokes.

& I have heard 250 and 350...not sure which is accurate, probably somwhere in the middle.

There is still a lot of elevation drop in that second pic making the lake look short.

 

[billnchristy]

There is an "OB" flagged area 5 or so feet from the bank of the lake, you must make it to this before you take the drop so technically you are doing what you say.

 

[podunk pete]

I think the TD's are getting cash under the table from the disc manuf's, so they want us all to throw our plastic in the lake.

 

[billnchristy]

This is all private and all found discs get returned so no conspiracy there.

 

[U_NICED_ME]

So, if the area on the bank just in front of the lake is OB, then what? You still have to throw over and now you've taken an additional stroke. HTH do you get over then, you're still OB on the front side. What am I not getting??

Is the basket on that piece of land jutting into the water from the left?

It's a beatiful hole by the way!

 

[DavidSauls]

How far to the shore of the pond? Is the 250' or 350' the pond itself, or the total throw from the tee to the far side?

If it's a long throw just to the pond, then 350' to carry it, that's a little tricky, rules-wise. You wouldn't give someone an automatic trip to the drop zone from the tee (with penalty); after that, it's problematic as to letting someone take a stroke or 2 and go to the drop zone. Unless they land in the 5' fringe, which is tight.

Looks like an awesome hole, either way.

 

[billnchristy]

Here is a drawing:

It is 445' to the water line
It is 250' shore to shore

Total hole length is 730'

The white line is the line you must pass to take the drop across shore in normal play. Is this legal to play this way with getting to the drop zone, taking 2 strokes and playing from the other pad across the lake?

 

[billnchristy]

Here is someone barely clearing the pond. With women I would think only the pros and adv. could make it and maybe some big armed intermediates.

 

[billnchristy]

If you pause at one second you can see the string line for the drop zone entry.