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Should a world distance record with wind assistance count?
- Thread starter leppard
- Start date
now if only that were on flat land
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Even if the wind were controlled, the distance record would be bogus because we haven't controlled the disc technology. The guys throwing today are not necessarily throwing farther than the guys with the records in the 70s with lower tech discs. Who's to say that Davis Johnson or Sam Ferrans in their prime wouldn't still have the record if they were throwing a Boss back then. Or, if the disc used for distance had been pinned down back then and no new tech discs allowed, their records might still be competitive.
For events like discus and shotput, the object being thrown is generic and the specs were established long ago so any records are legit if broken. So, locking a down a wind spec is only one aspect of making the golf disc distance record more legit. As it is, it's just a cool thing but not really a true record.
For events like discus and shotput, the object being thrown is generic and the specs were established long ago so any records are legit if broken. So, locking a down a wind spec is only one aspect of making the golf disc distance record more legit. As it is, it's just a cool thing but not really a true record.
mcdavis17
Bogey Member
Look at World Records for sprints, especially the 100-meter sprint (the world's fastest man/woman) -- how much has their equipment changed over the years -- shoes, clothing, starting blocks. Or, look at the high jump -- the "Fosbury Flop" revolutionized that event. Techniques and technologies will always help athletes find a better way to get that last .01 of a second, that next 1/4-inch of height, or that next yard of distance. I see no use in punishing someone who has found a new, legal, method of besting the current record.
However, as it has been said, track and field rules prohibit a world record from being recorded if there is a tailwind over a certain speed, as that is an unfair advantage. Otherwise, Usain Bolt would be running his next record attempt as a hurricane makes landfall somewhere.
However, as it has been said, track and field rules prohibit a world record from being recorded if there is a tailwind over a certain speed, as that is an unfair advantage. Otherwise, Usain Bolt would be running his next record attempt as a hurricane makes landfall somewhere.
i think the latest posts add an interesting point about elevation helping distance... for the disc record does it need to be on flat ground? the track references are always flat... no running or throwing down hills keep everything legit.
For disc golf throws, there can't be any change in elevation for the record to count.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Look at swimming where the suits do make a difference. Now, they've wised up and capped the suit technology back to a certain type of suit for the future making records down the road more legit. Phelps has already gone back to what will be mandated for 2010.
I don't blame our players for using new disc technology but the ruling body of the sport for allowing technology advances that have impacted distance. Makes no sense or you continue to obsolete course designs which has happened everywhere. At least golf has tried to cap their distance technology to some effect. The PDGA finally caught on too late. It will be interesting to see how the manufacturers cope now that they've almost hit the limits of rim design allowed. I look forward to seeing the cap on distance so more skill gets back in the game on the more open courses.
this will be interesting but unfair to some players:thmbdown:
Janbobbo
Bogey Member
I did not know that, but what I do know is that a head wind will help in discus throwing!
In cycling, they (the UCI) actually went back in the late 90's and retroactively threw out all world hour records after Eddy Merckx's which was set in 1974, because of all the more aerodynamic designs used to set new records. It has since been broken twice using bike set-ups similar to the one Merckx used. That would be like saying all disc throwing records had to be done with 70's era disc technologies.
I did not know that, but what I do know is that a head wind will help in discus throwing!
yea it must be the same idea, i am a thrower of many objects... got my discus and jav pics on my profile!
i think throwing out records because of advances is dumb. look at footballs records. none of them have been revoked because of advances in shoes and gear.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
The difference between equipment advances and weather is the "luck" factor. The shoes you wear and the disc you throw are under your control, so they are legitimately part of your work to put the disc out there. The wind is different, since it's a wild, chaotic element that can help you but that is totally out of your control. Sure you can "play" it but out of 5 throws you're not going to get a consistent, predictable result. The people who want to take the wind out of the question are trying to ask "How much can Avery Jenkins do with his disc," rather than "How much can Avery Jenkins and the wind do with his disc?"
On the other side of the argument, these distance competition standards have been in place for a long time, and I think I remember they were set up by the Father of Disc Golf himself, Steady Ed. For those who want a no-wind record, what's wrong with having a separate "indoor" record? That way we could argue about which is the "true" measure of an arm, just like baseball fans argue about the designated hitter and the aluminum bat.
On the other side of the argument, these distance competition standards have been in place for a long time, and I think I remember they were set up by the Father of Disc Golf himself, Steady Ed. For those who want a no-wind record, what's wrong with having a separate "indoor" record? That way we could argue about which is the "true" measure of an arm, just like baseball fans argue about the designated hitter and the aluminum bat.
There is an indoor record. Unfortunately it gets very little attention. Everyone looks at the outdoor record which is a VERY exaggerated distance due to wind.
truth is.. it really doesnt matter. records matter to runners and swimmers for the nature of their sport. throwing a disc far is just great but it doesnt make them the best at their sport, like a QB in football isnt the best QB because they can throw the farthest.
List of various distance records:
http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm#distance
The current indoor record is 143.56m or 471ft.
http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm#distance
The current indoor record is 143.56m or 471ft.
to justify this statement the aluminum bat was introduced as a safety precaution. there was fear that the higher frequency of broken bats at the younger age would produce many more injuries. now with the improvement of wooden bats and the introduction of different woods for the bat there are a lot of high school conferences even considering going to wooden bats. the college I attended was a wood bat conference (1 of 3 in the nation i believe) so yes technology has increased for baseball in that aspect but it is still being considered to go back the the original technology. discs are going to advance we cant deny that but the argument is about wind not technology. and I still go with two throws in opposing directions and then averaging to negate any wind assistance.
IMO it's important to see/hear of what dg's star players can do. If the records were set in an artificial setting and resulted in distances reached by local big arms in natural conditions, it would not impress many unless they were able to factor in what wind would do. If that was the case, people would have to speculate the translation of controlled to natural distance. Why not just keep it natural.
ie; star throws 600 in lab and hippie at local course throws 500. Doesn't seem so impressive. Even after the teller says "yea but that was in such and such humidity and zero wind". I prefer hearing 800 followed by "yea but that was in 35 mph wind at 3000 ft"
35mph wind from any direction is scary to me. For some reason a perfectly controlled atmosphere isn't as intimidating
ie; star throws 600 in lab and hippie at local course throws 500. Doesn't seem so impressive. Even after the teller says "yea but that was in such and such humidity and zero wind". I prefer hearing 800 followed by "yea but that was in 35 mph wind at 3000 ft"
35mph wind from any direction is scary to me. For some reason a perfectly controlled atmosphere isn't as intimidating
