Spin Putting 101

[Pbmercil]

The video is only 90 seconds long, but the important part is JohnE's explanation at the end.

 

[TAFL]

A nose up putt that has slowed a great deal when it hits chains seems to settle quite nicely with little chance of blowing through. It can also slow enough to hang in the air a bit and get blown back by wind or thrown out by chain rebound. I tend to use a nose up putt if the ground slopes down past the basket.

A nose down putt seems to slide down the chains better on contact. And if the disc is on a downward trajectory at the basket, misses tend to be low and hit ground without sliding far away. Into a headwind, the nose down makes it much less likely the wind will lift the disc and toss it around.

Sometimes I use a hyzer putt. Most often it's around trees between me and the basket. Other times it's because there's something beyond the basket I want to avoid if I miss--a tree line, say--and a miss on a hyzer line puts the disc along the tree line instead of well into it. (Occasionally, of course, it's an anny line.)

If it's really calm, I'll sometimes bomb putts--throw the disc on a very high arc to come down at a steep angle at the basket. Having the nose down on those is useful in keeping them from stalling out and fading hard. When those miss, they just sort of flop right around the basket and make the comeback very short.

 

[CreemCheese]

I found myself puzzled by a lot in the videos. Stuff they said just doesn't match my experience.

When Feldenberg said that the window for a spin putt was tiny and the window for a push putt was large, I laughted out loud, for example. The windows--and margins for error--are the same for either. Push putting removes some joint movement to reduce the likelihood of alignment error, sure, though that doesn't change the size of the shot window at all.

And claims such as one should always putt with the nose up had me scratching my head. It has it's uses, sure, though it's certainly not something I'd recommend for all putts. Indeed, I usually want the nose down and the disc on a downward trajectory to the basket. I learned that from a pro ages back in Iowa and found that it reduced both the number of washouts and the distance for return putts, in general.

I had the same thoughts as you. The window is the same opening regardless how your trying to get into it. I've never been a good putter, but when I was most accurate I was always push putting nose down. This gave me a bit more confidence from farther away, knowing that I wouldn't have to worry about a comeback putt.

 

[Kodachrome]

honestly, putt however you're comfortable when the wind is not a factor. nose down = glancing downward into basket. nose up = floatier putts with more fade. nose flatt = just gravy.


in a tailwind putt nose down and let the wind carry the disc more, putt more gently. orrrr putt flat. in a headwind putt flat. nose down=push down. nose up=stiffarm to your disc's face. in perpendicular crosswinds, putt nose down or flat. preferably flat. /story.

i try to keep it slightly nose down or flat. i rarely have to adjust how i putt, which is nice.

and if you're spin putting, putting flat is easier. so just putt flat or slightly nose down.

 

[zrxchris]

Can we talk mechanics of spin?

I did a couple of sessions of the 1025 game, 1 session push putt & 1 spin putt.
My triangle had points from - level ground, uphill & downhill (5-10' elevation change)

Push - I worked on pushing the disc out of my hand with middle finger & timing my weight shift and concentrating on getting a good push off my back foot when I got past 20'
I shot 525 and hit only 1 from 35' and 2 from 30'. I normally don't hit any from those distances and I was preloading the disc by turning my wrist in and got some better distance. The distance putts I hit had some Anny on them and that's something that might help. Parked all my misses.

Spin - I did pretty good up to 15'...seems like up close the Beato style works good for me. Nice and smooth and in that last video I used my shoulder to aim. Then at 20' I got stuck. I cock my wrist, but I get weird with how I should bend my elbow.
Should I pull into my stomach, waist and bend my elbow a little or line it up and bend my elbow more.
Also seemed like I kept wanting to do a power grip as my fan grip doesn't snap the disc as much
Should my arm and elbow remain straight thru the motion or come down then up?

How do you guys line up your spin and what parts of your arm move thru the motion?

 

[Declarkus]

He doesn't really give any advice on his SpinTV putting tutorial, but here's a bunch of McBeth putts. Notice how he puts nose up and he only bends his elbow a little. He also drops his disc all the way to his knee.

 

[runningDoc]

^its a combo putt. Has elements of straddle/pitch putt but he uses a staggered stance plus a spin putt where he definitely uses a lot of spin to penetrate and shoot at the target.

The advantage is that his form barely changes from 10ft to 75ft.

I tried a lot to copy it when I started but man it needs a ton if touch.

 

[mark996]

^I've been toying with that form more and more, without seeing that video but to me it makes sense. It feels more like a spush putt, but I still get a lot more distance, and accuracy than me either push putting, or spin putting. Just this morning I made several putts outside my normal circle, one my phone estimated at 32 feet from the basket, and all of the putts were at least hitting, or parking right at the basket.

 

[Kodachrome]

He doesn't really give any advice on his SpinTV putting tutorial, but here's a bunch of McBeth putts. Notice how he puts nose up and he only bends his elbow a little. He also drops his disc all the way to his knee.

obviously everyone has their quirks, but it's funny. i settled on a certain style finally and it's similar to this. very consistent, super easy to putt from in close and far away. though i adopt a different stance when close to help me "power down".

 

[TAFL]

That's similar to what I do, though I use more elbow at that range. I like how his discs are descending when getting to the basket. Interesting that he releases with the nose up, it appears, and then the nose comes flat during flight.

 

[zrxchris]

^form barely changes from 10ft to 75ft.

I tried a lot to copy it when I started but man it needs a ton if touch.

Yeah it's ashame that McBeth doesn't just say something like"
" I try and do this _____ to get the motion I want for my putt. To do that I think of (insert motion cue catch phrase here) when I load my putt.

The big takeaway I think is the same thing from close and far away. That is what I think will work for me then it's just more wrist pop or less for distance.

Today I played a rec round and hit a flat terrain 50' putt, which I never do...that I was trying to paint the pole but with a whip of my wrist. What I felt like was a "Spinish" or "Spish" putt. I aimed with my shoulder more than my hand and kinda of preloaded what to me is the whip or what I think is the spin, into my putt that really helped it get there, popping the disc from my waist. I felt like I bent my elbow as I was coming up.

When do you guys bend your elbow, on the way thru your motion or at the end of it?

 

[zrxchris]

^form barely changes from 10ft to 75ft.

I tried a lot to copy it when I started but man it needs a ton if touch.

Yeah it's ashame that McBeth doesn't just say something like"
" I try and do this _____ to get the motion I want for my putt. To do that I think of (insert motion cue catch phrase here) when I load my putt.

The big takeaway I think is the same thing from close and far away. That is what I think will work for me then it's just more wrist pop or less for distance.

Today I played a rec round and hit a flat terrain 50' putt, which I never do...that I was trying to paint the pole but with a whip of my wrist. What I felt like was a "Spinish" or "Spish" putt. I aimed with my shoulder more than my hand and kinda of preloaded what to me is the whip or what I think is the spin, into my putt that really helped it get there, popping the disc from my waist. I felt like I bent my elbow as I was coming up.

When do you guys bend your elbow, on the way thru your motion or at the end of it?

 

[Kodachrome]

slightly all the way through, extending at the point where my wrist opens, then rises upward to follow through and paint the pole. i let my arm start from down below. my arm goes from fully dangly to at the post but somewhere in between i bend my elbow a little. it doesn't feel natural otherwise; it feels like i'm gimping myself if i pull it into my waist area.

 

[Declarkus]

I start with my elbow slightly bent as I line it up, disc slightly nose up. I keep my elbow bent, and I actually hinge it a bit toward my body as I bring it back to the middle of my back leg. I keep my elbow bent and hinge it back to straight, releasing the disc at hip level just before my elbow locks all the way out.

Something I noticed watching the McBeth vid and the McCray vid, is how they kick their leg behind them to get their shoulders lined up with the basket on release. It helps counterbalance the tendency to push it over right without weirdly altering your stance. I got so hung up on stance, I would bring my back leg more behind me on long putts to close my shoulder off more, which I wouldn't recommend. I'm gonna play around with my left leg kick on longer putts next time out.

 

[zrxchris]

I start with my elbow slightly bent as I line it up, disc slightly nose up. I keep my elbow bent, and I actually hinge it a bit toward my body as I bring it back to the middle of my back leg. I keep my elbow bent and hinge it back to straight, releasing the disc at hip level just before my elbow locks all the way out.

Something I noticed watching the McBeth vid and the McCray vid, is how they kick their leg behind them to get their shoulders lined up with the basket on release. It helps counterbalance the tendency to push it over right without weirdly altering your stance. I got so hung up on stance, I would bring my back leg more behind me on long putts to close my shoulder off more, which I wouldn't recommend. I'm gonna play around with my left leg kick on longer putts next time out.

Excellent description!

To me McCray has the "Spish" style where his arm goes down and up with a big snap at the pole. Mcbeth is much more true spin style, IMO.

When I played 1025 today, I tried to explode my release more from my
hip/stomach than my chest and hit 3 from 30' & 1 from 35'. I'm usually lucky to hit one or two tops from 30' and out.

I also tried to to think and line up so much, I really like how Feldberg says w/spin putting that you should line up once from like 10ft behind your marker, then just walk up and throw. It helped me not to think so much...which is a good thing for me...lol


Thanks

 

[Declarkus]

If you're serious about spin putting, remember to keep your legs involved. Get a good push from your rear leg. And, it's more wrist than arm. Make sure you are releasing the disc before the elbow gets fully extended. Involving the legs helps that.

the energy will come from your legs and body unless you have a weird putting style like i do.

Dunipace comes off headstrong in saying that's all you need, when in fact you can see him doing some healthy leg kick and body extension on his long puts.

Strip it down to basics and build around that.

This is all great stuff. I stripped down my putting form and really focused on each aspect of my form.

Getting my legs more involved has been huge for my accuracy and power from outside the circle. A good push off with the back leg powers it to the chains without compensating with extra wrist and elbow. The kick just helps maintain balance from the extra force generated towards the basket. Kicking straight back also keeps me from pushing it right. If it's outside 35', I just widen my stance a little, bend my knees a bit and load up on my back leg.

Can we talk mechanics of spin?

Spin - Then at 20' I got stuck. I cock my wrist, but I get weird with how I should bend my elbow.
Should I pull into my stomach, waist and bend my elbow a little or line it up and bend my elbow more.
Also seemed like I kept wanting to do a power grip as my fan grip doesn't snap the disc as much
Should my arm and elbow remain straight thru the motion or come down then up?

How do you guys line up your spin and what parts of your arm move thru the motion?

the elbow position seems to be a personal thing.

I've recently changed my elbow philosophy. Now, I just keep it straight and only hinge at the shoulder. My elbow bends a little as it wraps around my body and it rolls a bit as I try to keep the disc level the whole time, but I try to keep it straight. Not locked, just straight.

I swing my arm around my left side more like Philo, but if I drop too low on my arm swing, I tend to float them nose up or hyzer release it, causing it to fade early. I don't like being too squared up to the basket, because I feel like my body chokes off a smooth arm swing. This is also why I tend to float straddle putts.

You mentioned your release feeling weird. An exercise that's worked for me is pausing for a second or two on your front foot just before release. So from about 20', rock forward, but keep the disc cocked back, and as you stay centered and balanced on your front foot, focus on a clean, level release. Once you get comfortable with a consistent arm swing and accurate release, you can incorporate your legs for the power to attack the chains.

My pointer finger stays on the rim.
Important part of this is keeping the back of the hand pointed at your target before release.

This is how I putt, with my thumb and middle finger pinching, like I'm trying to snap my fingers. I used to line up putts by pointing my index finger, but now I line up my thumb perpendicular to the pole. It's basically the same as lining up the back of the hand.

 

[Jouni]

I feel like I can get much better spin when I pinch the disc between thumb and index finger instead of middle finger, but sometimes disc pivots too much and ends up way to the right. With middle finger and thumb I get slip-outs and generally much less spin. Have to keep experimenting.

 

[TAFL]

I had to stop and consider exactly how my putts process, because it's automatic at this point. The things I still consciously think about are quite limited.

I don't line up the disc with an extended arm or anything. I line up my body and shoulder, so that when I rock my weight from rear to front, that front shoulder is driving straight to the target; simply lifting my arm on that line puts it straight at the pin. Disc begins low with wrist curled around the front (12:00). If I'm going to need more distance, then the moment my arm starts to rise, the elbow bends. The arm unfurls and releases at the moment my weight rests fully over my front foot and rear foot is free of weight. Elbow extends straight on line, wrist extends to straight on line, with palm vertical as I'm shaking hands with the basket (which is how I explain it to beginners).

Whereas the push putt derives its power from the weight shift pushing through the palm combined with springy fingers, this putt uses the weight shift and then the use of one or two hinges to get power and adds the stability of greater spin.

 

[Jouni]

Ok, finally found out why I haven't gotten any better in my putting in last two years. I seem to move my thumb in middle of the putt (when the disc gets close to body just before switching direction) unconsciously and that most likely leads to all kinds of inconsistensies. Now I just need to figure out how to get rid of that habit...

 

[Dan Ensor]

There's one thing that I keep having to remind myself:

-Throw it at the basket.

Yeah ... pretty simple ... I thought for a long time that I'd just figure out my form, and I wouldn't have to throw it at the basket. It'd just go there accidentally. It did not.