The Overhand

[CwAlbino]

I've got a basic understanding of how to throw an overhand, but I'm wondering if there's information out there about the technical aspects of an overhand. Grip is easy, I'm mainly wanting things like weight transfer, where your body should pivot on axis, shoulder rotation etc. The reason is I'm trying to figure out how to throw a smooth thumber with as minimal body harm as possible. Most people just throw as hard as they can and end up hurting their arm/shoulder/elbow.


First thing first, are there any high quality videos out there of pros throwing overhands? I've searched geoff and schebby, or even just "disc golf overhands" but nothing really stands out.

 

[New013]

I would think it's a lot like the biomechanics of a baseball pitch except the release point is normally higher. I consulted on a baseball game and did some research in to pitch mechanics. To reduce the most amount of stress on your elbow and shoulder the most important thing is to follow through with your throwing arm towards the opposite hip as well as flexing your core and plant leg once it recontacts the ground.

It's really the same as what the back hand has been explained to me. You are leading your lateral shoulder rotation with pelvis and core rotation; while letting the forward movement of your upper arm to naturally extend your elbow and sling your lower arm forward.

look up biomechanics of a baseball throw and i'm sure there is a detailed explanation out there somewhere which explains it much better.

 

[robbrews]

to help me throw with "more body" i use my old baseball outfielder's throw called the crow hop. it's actually quite stressfull on your arm everytime you throw overhand. that's why the most in shape pitcher can't pitch 2 days in row. while fastpitch softball pitchers can pitch day after day. but my point is the crow hop will help reduce the stress on your arm by using your body to create momentum. here is a link of an outfielder throwing home for a good example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhfXkGcHBBM
this will help save your arm while getting more distance

 

[robbrews]

also here is an actual disc golf overhand vid of some pros throwing at about.
this has some good footage and tips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZQbxrr1v8

 

[medicinalfunk]

I've got a basic understanding of how to throw an overhand, but I'm wondering if there's information out there about the technical aspects of an overhand. Grip is easy, I'm mainly wanting things like weight transfer, where your body should pivot on axis, shoulder rotation etc. The reason is I'm trying to figure out how to throw a smooth thumber with as minimal body harm as possible. Most people just throw as hard as they can and end up hurting their arm/shoulder/elbow.


First thing first, are there any high quality videos out there of pros throwing overhands? I've searched geoff and schebby, or even just "disc golf overhands" but nothing really stands out.

ask MDR to throw some for you next time you see him at a tourney

 

[GLong]

the discraft vid is great. those guys make it look so easy. although i feel like unless you have the baseball/tennis/etc background, it's probably a pipe dream to think about throwing overhands that far. the wear and tear on your body isn't worth it.

the crow hop is very important, as stated above it creates momentum and helps with timing. also make sure you exaggerate the follow-through. use your core to get the arm whipping, just like a BH.

 

[CwAlbino]

the discraft vid is great. those guys make it look so easy. although i feel like unless you have the baseball/tennis/etc background, it's probably a pipe dream to think about throwing overhands that far. the wear and tear on your body isn't worth it.

the crow hop is very important, as stated above it creates momentum and helps with timing. also make sure you exaggerate the follow-through. use your core to get the arm whipping, just like a BH.

If you count middle school as a background

I actually have a decent thumber and I know from in the past I can get them out of there. The main thing is that I want to teach others how to do it smoothly, I've come up with some basics on my own but I wanted to watch slo-mo pros to see if everything fell together. I think a standstill 300' should be more than possible with minimal wear and tear.


Without looking into baseball mechanics:

Grip: Place the thumb in, use the index finger on the side of the disc to hold the create a grip point on the opposite side of the disc from the thumb, use the middle or ring finger on the edge of the disc to lock it all into place.

Body: Step forward with the left (if throwing righty) leg and weight shift with the hips over the plant foot. Lead with the shoulders, as they come around with the hips the right shoulder goes over top the left shoulder to lead the throwing arm/lever. As the shoulder reaches the top the elbow comes around , leading and lines up with the direction of the throw and the follow through. Arm starts to extend as the shoulder/body pulls it through and the hand will reach the determined release point and angle, disc ejects. Allow the body to follow through completely.

ask MDR to throw some for you next time you see him at a tourney

I don't really play tourneys and have no clue who that is.

 

[JoshEpoo]

Kudos on trying to help people. I'm sure you already know this but I'll say it anyway. Teaching people who are inexperienced with throwing overhands is a dangerous proposition. You really need to focus on getting the elbow and shoulder conditioned for that throw. It's way more important than any kind of wordy explanation.

The actual mechanics of throwing an OH shot are pretty intuitive. It's a lot easier to get your weight behind the disc, but few people posses the flexibility and strength in their core, shoulder, and elbow to throw overhand much farther than 300'. Those who do are the ones who naturally possess a big OH.

The other limiting factor is usually the same as BH throws, no snap/poor manipulation of the weight of the disc through the hit.

 

[CwAlbino]

Kudos on trying to help people. I'm sure you already know this but I'll say it anyway. Teaching people who are inexperienced with throwing overhands is a dangerous proposition. You really need to focus on getting the elbow and shoulder conditioned for that throw. It's way more important than any kind of wordy explanation.

The actual mechanics of throwing an OH shot are pretty intuitive. It's a lot easier to get your weight behind the disc, but few people posses the flexibility and strength in their core, shoulder, and elbow to throw overhand much farther than 300'. Those who do are the ones who naturally possess a big OH.

The other limiting factor is usually the same as BH throws, no snap/poor manipulation of the weight of the disc through the hit.

Yes I do, which is why I want to try to limit it as much as possible. There are a few people I consistently teach but I've never taught overhands and I usually refrain from it for that reason. One is 6'3", played baseball/basketball and was a QB in football. He's really the one I want to get to use correct mechanics. He throws overhands but only as a utility or outshot, shots up to about 250' in which he uses an XL. All of us throw something similar to it, with basic understandings of release angles to make the disc hit top down and slide up to the basket for upshots and outshots. Basically just want to convert that from a utility/last resort to increasing the distance as a viable drive.

 

[TheLyonsKing]

Firstly, i'm an 80% thumber thrower off the teepad. I've played tournaments where i may throw only 2 drives "regularly (RHBH)".

The disc you choose to throw truly does not matter. Many people will advise you to throw a firebird or something super overstable so that it will hold its flight path longer before it turns (thus giving you extra distance). If your throwing a thumber on a wide open hole with no trees or tight gaps to throw threw then yes that disc is the way to go. BUT on the average hole "especially wooded holes" the disc you choose to throw does not make much of a difference at all.

There are 2 things that determine any discs flight path with throwing a thumber. The first is wrist snap, and the second is the angle at which you release the disc. Not only do I use my thumber off the pad but I use it for simple upshots also because once you master the flight of the disc you can be very accurate.

How I hold the disc
Very simple. I just make sure the digit of my thumb fits on the inside rim of the disc "where the sharpest point on a new disc for example" would be. The only other finger touching the disc is my index finger and the backend of the disc lays inside the inner part of my hand. (If you were to stick your hand out like you hand was a gun those are the parts of the hand that come in contact with the disc). The other fingers are "crunched" together all supporting the index finger. The index finger comes in contact with the bottom of the disc also grasping the rim with the end digit. I grip it fairly tight, you dont want to have a loose grip or a wet index finger or your going to do a grip lock version of a RHBH.

Wrist Snap
The way you snap the wrist determines how it (the disc) will fly. There are 2 ways to snap your wrist. I'd describe the 2 ways as (using examples) "the fishing rod cast snap" and the "turn the key snap". With the cast snap your snapping your wrist much like you would if you were fishing and trying to cast your bait as far as you could as straight as you could (throwing vertically). When throwing this way the wrist isnt turning its stationary and your just snapping your wrist before you release the disc. Throwing in this way results in the disc staying up and down longer and turning slower. Its a great shot if you want distance OR there is a tight gap (trees) you have to hit early. The second is the turn the key snap.... When you do that snap your literally turning your wrist when you release it much like you would do when your unlocking the door to your house or starting your car. This results in the disc turning much faster, not holding the line long. This would be great for a shot that turns right quickly if your a right handed thrower.

Its very important to practice and realize how hard YOUR snap determines what the flight path of the disc will be. In general.. the harder the snap the quicker the disc will turn, the slower or less snap you give the less it will turn...

I use little to no snap at all when throwing upshots for example.. Its a smooth shot that hits the ground and pancake slides to the basket. It can be highly accurate when you master it!

The angle you release the disc at
This is probably the most important... just like how you snap the disc before you release it the angle at which you release it will determine how it flies. Its just like a pitcher in baseball... some of them throw it straight up and down... some of them throw it sidearmed where they dip down towards the ground. Where you release it determines where its going to end up and the line its going to take when you throw.

If your ending up 30 feet to far right your probably releasing it on to much of a sidearm (more elbow bend) causing the disc to turn quicker than it should. Likewise with ending up to far to the left you'd be throwing it to much straight up and down not letting it turn quick enough and therefore it turns slower than it should you would need to bend your elbow more and throw it more sidearmed.

Mixing and matching the snap you give with the angle you release the disc at is everything when throwing a thumber. The disc does not matter all that much..... Unless your going for distance any disc you choose can be a quick turner or a longer line holder....

 

[zenbot]

The disc you choose to throw truly does not matter. Many people will advise you to throw a firebird or something super overstable so that it will hold its flight path longer before it turns (thus giving you extra distance). If your throwing a thumber on a wide open hole with no trees or tight gaps to throw threw then yes that disc is the way to go. BUT on the average hole "especially wooded holes" the disc you choose to throw does not make much of a difference at all.

You're saying thumbing a Firebird and a Roadrunner will create the same shot. :doh:


Even a line drive thumber in the "wooded hole' example you provided will have two entirely different flight patterns based on the stability of the disc.

 

[TheLyonsKing]

I'm saying it can based on how you throw the disc.

Not much if at all based on how you throw it.

I throw all thumbers... I think i would know... yes if you use the same disc and throw it the exact same way it will fly differently i'm saying you can use ANY DISC and have it fly the way you want if you throw it a certain way.

 

[TheLyonsKing]

You obviously did not read all I had to say, OR i did not explain it well enough... It is much easier to show a person than describe the mechanics of something.

 

[CwAlbino]

You're saying thumbing a Firebird and a Roadrunner will create the same shot. :doh:


Even a line drive thumber in the "wooded hole' example you provided will have two entirely different flight patterns based on the stability of the disc.

I'm saying it can based on how you throw the disc.

Not much if at all based on how you throw it.

I throw all thumbers... I think i would know... yes if you use the same disc and throw it the exact same way it will fly differently i'm saying you can use ANY DISC and have it fly the way you want if you throw it a certain way.

You are both right. I do know enough about flight stabilities to comment back on those, I was mainly just trying to re-enforce body mechanics and not so much flight lines. Thank you for the long response though Lyons




Disc selection on overhands
The more understable the disc, the more it will very from side to side. By moving left and right, it's going to go less distance. The travel distance might be close to the same, but the linear distance is going to be less. The more overstable the straighter it will fly.

What he is talking about with turn-key is Overhand OAT. Basically making that firebird he's throwing more like throwing a roadrunner (maybe not that drastic but you get the idea). It robs you of a lot of distance (just like OAT on conventional throws) but can allow you to shape lines if you use it correctly. It is possible to just throw normally with a less stable disc to achieve the same thing, but to each his own.

*Snap*
Snap is usually used as a synonym for spin (it's not) so I'm going to assume that's what you mean. Spin would actually make the disc act more overstable and turn less. When you are throwing those upshots that turn more, you aren't adding spin but reducing spin and maintaining/adding more velocity. The effect is the same as throwing a more understable disc or throwing with OAT (your turn-key), the disc will flex back and forth more.