Throwing at another card during round

[fishballer06]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on an issue that happened to me during our league championship round yesterday.

On hole 2 during our round yesterday (this was a PDGA rated round), my card had just finished putting out on this hole. This hole is around 275', semi wooded, with the right side of the fairway being dense woods. I was the last to putt and I was at my bag placing my putters back in my bag. While doing so, I hear a disc smack into the tree right next to me. I immediately stood up, startled, and yelled back "Hey!" to let them know that they just threw at us before we were off the green.

Now, this round had started at 8:30AM and the outside air temps were around 30*. So my whole card assumed that is was another card from our league that did this. We didn't think much of it other than it being an honest mistake on their part.

Fast forward to hole 6. This hole is 250', wide open. There's literally only one little tree on the entire fairway and it's not obstructing your view in any way. Again, my cardmates all putted out and I'm the last one to putt. I'm about 15' from the basket and I'm bent over placing my mini on the ground and moving my other disc out of the way. All of the sudden, a disc comes flying in and slides right over my mini and previous disc and comes to rest inches behind my mini.

At this point I'm pissed. Twice in 5 holes this group has thrown at us while on the green. I yell at them "What the hell? We're literally putting right now?!" They yell back "Sorry, didn't see you." Which was a total lie and I yell back "There's an entire card of people inside the circle putting in a wide open field. How do you not see us?" To which their only response was "I guess we didn't see you." I'm livid, the rest of my card is livid as well. My cardmates ask if I'm okay and if the disc hit me or my bag. I look around and notice that this other persons disc is now laying where I need to place my foot in order to putt from my lie. So I yelled back at the other card "I have to move your disc in order to putt." Then they replied back saying "I don't f*ing care. It's not my f*ing problem. Just f*ing deal with it". So I took an awkward stanced putt and finished out the hole.

Once we leave the hole, my cardmates start talking, wondering who was in this group behind us that would act and talk like that. So pulled up the starting starting hole assignments for the day and I noted that it would have to be a card of the open division guys (one of which was the course super, and the other was the club secretary). We all agreed that there's no way any of them would ever act/say/or do anything like what we just experienced.

Once we're at hole 8, we watch the card behind us playing on hole 7. We realized immediately that it wasn't who we thought it was and that it's a random group of walk on's playing their own doubles among themselves. They had somehow snuck in between cards of the league guys.

Long story short, my question is - What could I have done in this situation if another card is habitually throwing at us while we're still on the green during a sanctioned round? I realize that I can't do anything to a group of players who weren't in the league/tournament, but say that they had been in the event. Is there any repercussion that could be done to players/cards that put others in danger intentionally?

The only thing I could find so far in the PDGA rule book is rule 812 A, but this rule doesn't state what the penalty is for breaking these rules.

A player must not:
Throw if the throw might injure someone or distract another player; or,
Throw out of order without consent or when it would impact another player; or,
Engage in distracting or unsportsmanlike actions such as:
Shouting (unless warning someone at risk of being struck by a disc),
Cursing,

 

[BillFleming]

Trouble is that they aren't playing league....so you really can't penalize them. Throw their disc in the woods? That's stooping to their level. I'd talk to my card....let them know I'm going to talk to the group behind (so I don't get called for 30 second delay) and have a chat with the group about a league playing and not throwing into other groups - that it is their f*ing problem as someone can badly get hurt by a disc and they are responsible for any injuries. Then leave it at that.

 

[Rastnav]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on an issue that happened to me during our league championship round yesterday.

On hole 2 during our round yesterday (this was a PDGA rated round), my card had just finished putting out on this hole. This hole is around 275', semi wooded, with the right side of the fairway being dense woods. I was the last to putt and I was at my bag placing my putters back in my bag. While doing so, I hear a disc smack into the tree right next to me. I immediately stood up, startled, and yelled back "Hey!" to let them know that they just threw at us before we were off the green.

Now, this round had started at 8:30AM and the outside air temps were around 30*. So my whole card assumed that is was another card from our league that did this. We didn't think much of it other than it being an honest mistake on their part.

Fast forward to hole 6. This hole is 250', wide open. There's literally only one little tree on the entire fairway and it's not obstructing your view in any way. Again, my cardmates all putted out and I'm the last one to putt. I'm about 15' from the basket and I'm bent over placing my mini on the ground and moving my other disc out of the way. All of the sudden, a disc comes flying in and slides right over my mini and previous disc and comes to rest inches behind my mini.

At this point I'm pissed. Twice in 5 holes this group has thrown at us while on the green. I yell at them "What the hell? We're literally putting right now?!" They yell back "Sorry, didn't see you." Which was a total lie and I yell back "There's an entire card of people inside the circle putting in a wide open field. How do you not see us?" To which their only response was "I guess we didn't see you." I'm livid, the rest of my card is livid as well. My cardmates ask if I'm okay and if the disc hit me or my bag. I look around and notice that this other persons disc is now laying where I need to place my foot in order to putt from my lie. So I yelled back at the other card "I have to move your disc in order to putt." Then they replied back saying "I don't f*ing care. It's not my f*ing problem. Just f*ing deal with it". So I took an awkward stanced putt and finished out the hole.

Once we leave the hole, my cardmates start talking, wondering who was in this group behind us that would act and talk like that. So pulled up the starting starting hole assignments for the day and I noted that it would have to be a card of the open division guys (one of which was the course super, and the other was the club secretary). We all agreed that there's no way any of them would ever act/say/or do anything like what we just experienced.

Once we're at hole 8, we watch the card behind us playing on hole 7. We realized immediately that it wasn't who we thought it was and that it's a random group of walk on's playing their own doubles among themselves. They had somehow snuck in between cards of the league guys.

Long story short, my question is - What could I have done in this situation if another card is habitually throwing at us while we're still on the green during a sanctioned round? I realize that I can't do anything to a group of players who weren't in the league/tournament, but say that they had been in the event. Is there any repercussion that could be done to players/cards that put others in danger intentionally?

The only thing I could find so far in the PDGA rule book is rule 812 A, but this rule doesn't state what the penalty is for breaking these rules.

If they had been in the event then 812.C specifies the penalty for courtesy violations:
A player receives a warning for the first violation of any courtesy rule. Each subsequent violation of any courtesy rule by that player in the same round incurs one penalty throw. A courtesy violation may be called or confirmed by any affected player, or by an Official. Repeated courtesy violations may result in disqualification by the Director.

 

[sisyphus]

Don't throw their disc & incur a practice stroke penalty...

Picking up their litter and depositing in the next available trash receptacle is actually encouraged during a pdga sanctioned event: helping to restore the course to the condition it was in when you and the other tourney groups played the hole.




...sorry, I probably wouldn't, but the thought just crossed my mind. Frustrating.

 

[runningDoc]

the best part about disc golf is fellow disc golfers who become friends.

the worst part about disc golf is also disc golfer d-bags.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Was the course closed for your event? If not I doubt there's much to be done here. Probably best to take the high road.

 

[biscoe]

Let them play through.

 

[HyooMac]

Being thrown on is a terrible feeling , sort of a "violation" (a bit dramatic, but it is like feeling someone has barged into "your space"). I will admit to doing it a few weeks ago, on a heavily wooded downhill. I was playing alone, saw nobody ahead of me, and threw. It faded too much and headed for the woods. It disappeared from sight because of the severe downslope. As I was walking to the area, three players appeared, and then a fourth. They had been looking for their discs on in woods on both sides.

I really felt terrible, and apologized several times. The response I got was pretty unforgiving. Nobody said "you should have seen us" but that's what the messaging felt like, with "I heard your disc land over there."

Turns out they were slow players, and had probably been passed (played through) several times. Just four middle-aged women, playing disc golf on a Saturday. I had noticed them earlier, but they appeared to be several groups ahead. So for all I know, my disc was just one more that flew into "their space" during the day.

There's no excuse for the dickish behavior the OP experienced. It's *possible* they were completely unaware of their surroundings…or they were just a-holes. The world is full of both types, and disc golf has it's share. But taking the specific personalities out of it, I think that if you play this game long enough, it's possible to find yourself on both sides of every argument.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Let them play through.

This... I always try to let randos play thru in a tourney setting. I'd much rather have them in front of my card than behind for this very reason.

 

[coupe]

Let them play through … then throw on them.

FTFY.

 

[dmoore1998]

I don't think OP wants actual opinions, this is just a low-key flex about always having to putt last because he puts it closer than all his cardmates! (joking)

The rule quoted though is another example of HORRIBLE rules.

Throw if the throw might injure someone or distract another player

Might? There are many courses where ANY throw you make MIGHT injure or distract someone if it's a bad enough throw, heck might distract someone if it's a GOOD throw.

 

[robdeforge]

Being thrown on is a terrible feeling , sort of a "violation" (a bit dramatic, but it is like feeling someone has barged into "your space"). I will admit to doing it a few weeks ago, on a heavily wooded downhill. I was playing alone, saw nobody ahead of me, and threw. It faded too much and headed for the woods. It disappeared from sight because of the severe downslope. As I was walking to the area, three players appeared, and then a fourth. They had been looking for their discs on in woods on both sides.

I really felt terrible, and apologized several times. The response I got was pretty unforgiving. Nobody said "you should have seen us" but that's what the messaging felt like, with "I heard your disc land over there."

this is why I try to leave my bag in the middle of the fairway, or at least in a spot visible from the tee. there are times when I've been wandering around in the rough with my bag on while playing a solo round and thought to myself "if somebody came to the tee now, they'd have no idea I was here and I wouldn't blame them for that!"

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Is there a body of water nearby?

 

[TurnedOver]

Treating it like a lost disc may be a good solution. Pick it up, put it in your bag, and drop it in the lost disc box after your round.

 

[Steve West]

...
The rule quoted though is another example of HORRIBLE rules.

Throw if the throw might injure someone or distract another player

...

For the record, the rule starts with: "A player must not:".

You can't just claim something is "another example" without having a list of examples to point to.

Using a hyperbolic adjective and putting it in all caps only hurts your own credibility.

If the rule is so bad, surely replacing "A player must not:" with "A player must always:" would make it better, right?

OK, rant done.

Seriously, what would be a better rule to stop players from throwing when they shouldn't throw?

 

[coupe]

There are many courses where ANY throw you make MIGHT injure or distract someone if it's a bad enough throw, heck might distract someone if it's a GOOD throw.

That's an example of horrible course design, not a horrible rule.

 

[dmoore1998]

That's an example of horrible course design, not a horrible rule.

I've played a lot of courses, I've yet to play on a course where there wasn't a hole that I "could" hurt someone with a wild throw.

 

[dmoore1998]

For the record, the rule starts with: "A player must not:".

You can't just claim something is "another example" without having a list of examples to point to.

Using a hyperbolic adjective and putting it in all caps only hurts your own credibility.

If the rule is so bad, surely replacing "A player must not:" with "A player must always:" would make it better, right?

OK, rant done.

Seriously, what would be a better rule to stop players from throwing when they shouldn't throw?

There are tons of horrible PDGA rules, they've been discussed in this forum ad nauseum, I didn't feel the need to run down a shopping list of poorly worded/handled rules that are either unenforced, unenforceable, or just bad to begin with. The 30 second rule is the most obvious example.

The problem with this rule specifically is "might". A simple change could be "is likely to", or you simply do away with the rule entirely. Do you think anyone in the history of disc golf has ever thought "ya know, I was going to throw and hurt someone, but it's against the official rules, so I guess I won't because I might get a penalty"?

I struggle to think of any good rule where you are prohibited from doing something, if something "might" happen. It's a horrible rule because it carries NO real meaning.

It doesn't even define that it's about competitors being hurt...so you also can't throw a disc if you might injure a spectator, or a spotter (think of the trouble involved with having spotters, but not being able to throw if you MIGHT injure them). You can't throw a disc if you MIGHT distract another player...it's meaningless and unenforceable.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

No PDGA rule's is gonna do squat about a bunch of casuals throwing on the card playing in front of them.

The fact that in this instance, throwee's round happened to be sanctioned has no real bearing on the situation. The group playing the sanctioned round ain't the issue here.

The question here is, "What's the best way to handle an inconsiderate, unsafe, group of @$$holes who throw on you before you finish the hole?"

 

[dmoore1998]

No PDGA rule's is gonna do squat about a bunch of casuals throwing on the card playing in front of them.

The fact that in this instance, throwee's round happened to be sanctioned has no real bearing on the situation. The group playing the sanctioned round ain't the issue here.

The question here is, "What's the best way to handle an inconsiderate, unsafe, group of @$$holes who throw on you before you finish the hole?"

I think that depends on what "best" means to an individual. The best way to avoid it happening again is to let them play through. However, that's likely to lead to them doing similar undesirable things like this in the future. The best way to feel like you "got them" is to do something unethical/illegal, which also has consequences for you. It kind of depends on your goal, and often when this happens an individual's goal is not REALLY to just make sure it doesn't happen to them again...because that seems like rewarding jerks.