Tired of people not renewing PDGA membership!

[New013]

I'm tired of people getting tired of things.

If you can do something about it then why worry about it? If you can't do anything about it then why worry about it?

 

[DavidSauls]

ratings are 'over rated' in my opinion. Unless you play in rated tournaments at unfamiliar courses your rating will be ballooned. You can get a local guy who only plays courses in their home town, so their rating would appear higher than if they were to travel and play courses that they don't know the 'local lines.'

Ratings are also based on how many people you beat in a given round. So someone could absolutely dominate at a long 'links' type course, but really struggle in a tight technical course. Are you suggesting that they play in different divisions based on the course, and not not go by their rating?

I don't think ratings vary greatly between home-course players and traveling players. They might for a player who's game fits his home course, such as a long thrower who only plays his long open home course. But by-and-large, I look at results among players who play lots of courses, and they don't shoot much higher ratings on their own courses than when on the road.

Ratings are not based on how many people you beat in a given round.

Whether they're "over-rated" depends on who's rating the ratings. I find them the best system for dividing players into divisions by skill that I've seen, and certainly a vast improvement over the system that preceded them.

 

[joshmo65]

I don't think ratings vary greatly between home-course players and traveling players. They might for a player who's game fits his home course, such as a long thrower who only plays his long open home course. But by-and-large, I look at results among players who play lots of courses, and they don't shoot much higher ratings on their own courses than when on the road.

I felt the same way as you, but then I looked at my rounds for the last year and came up with some actual numbers. I am currently rated 933 and have played 32 rated rounds in the last year. I have played 14 rounds at my "home" courses and 18 rounds at courses I have only played once or twice.

Average: 933.9 (home), 923.0 (away)
Standard Deviation: 32.79 (home), 36.82 (away)

Since May, I have a total of 21 rounds, 7 home and 14 away:
Average: 947.9 (home), 931.4 (away)
Standard Deviation: 23.2 (home), 32.03 (away)

5 of my 8 highest rated rounds were at home (but my highest by far (by 18 points) was away) and 5 of my 6 worst rounds were away. I guess being away does lower your rating.

 

[DavidSauls]

Last time I did this for myself my rating was actually higher on the road. But I base my judgement on tournaments I attend, noting whether the home players dominated or whether the hottest rounds were by home players or visitors.

But your home-course advantage is fairly small---not enough to say a player who only plays tournaments at home will have enough of a higher rating to discredit the ratings system, which was the point.

Actually, there are 3 categories to consider---home course players, visiting players playing blind, and visiting players who've played the course several times and are fairly familiar with it. I doubt this 3rd group shoots much worse than the home course players.

 

[dusty5150]

i just quickly went through this exercise.... I see consistently higher rated rounds when travelling.

A neat trend I noticed is that my average round rating increases each round. R1's(925) R2's(928) R3's(953) R4's(961).

 

[Cgkdisc]

Here's a table showing the average points difference in round ratings for PDGA members compared to their rating based on distance from home.

Diff. Miles from home
3.30 Under 20
0.50 20 - 50
-0.4 50 - 75
-0.7 75 - 100
-1.4 100 - 150
-1.2 150 - 200
-1.1 200 -300
-1.4 Over 300

 

[Dave242]

Interesting. You certainly can see how course familiarity makes a difference......but at 4.7 rating points, it is only about 1/2 a throw per round (1 per day, 2 per 4 round tournament).

That really is almost imperceptible. And, I would think since ratings change by a good percentage of that variation every ratings change for many people, the margin of error of that data cuts into the meaningfulness of it too a bit.

But, I suppose the average is made up by people whose differences of playing home vs away are larger than that and some that are the reverse of that.

 

[giles]

Funny. I always thought my game set up better for par 4 style DG over pitch and putt. Decently long off the tee, strong ability to get up and down but a weak putt outside 25' (When I played tournaments anything outside 40' was a layup). Then I shot my first 1000 rated round on a pitch and putt course 4,344' I'd only played once the day before the tournament.

 

[wake911]

Here's a table showing the average points difference in round ratings for PDGA members compared to their rating based on distance from home.

Diff. Miles from home
3.30 Under 20
0.50 20 - 50
-0.4 50 - 75
-0.7 75 - 100
-1.4 100 - 150
-1.2 150 - 200
-1.1 200 -300
-1.4 Over 300

where is this data pulled from? (i'm a numbers nerd) It makes sense, and like other guy said, barely a perceptible difference in score.

 

[DavidSauls]

Mine is probably skewed because I'm usually running or helping run the tournament at "home". My 4th rounds in this cases have been abysmal.

I'd think the value of familiarity is diminishing. After the 2nd time around, how much more do you gain? After the 20th?

 

[giles]

Mine is probably skewed because I'm usually running or helping run the tournament at "home". My 4th rounds in this cases have been abysmal.

I'd think the value of familiarity is diminishing. After the 2nd time around, how much more do you gain? After the 20th?

Depends on the course and how smart the player is.

 

[Cgkdisc]

where is this data pulled from? (i'm a numbers nerd) It makes sense, and like other guy said, barely a perceptible difference in score.

Roger Smith is the guy who does the hardcore processing of the ratings with me for the PDGA. He produced this report.

As with most things involving ratings averages, personal results can vary quite bit. In the long run we would like to create a way for players to produce "what if" ratings based on the type of course or weather conditions once that data can be corss referenced in the PDGA databases.

 

[joshmo65]

i just quickly went through this exercise.... I see consistently higher rated rounds when travelling.

A neat trend I noticed is that my average round rating increases each round. R1's(925) R2's(928) R3's(953) R4's(961).

Must be nice.
R1 (12): 930
R2 (11): 918
R3 (6): 935
R4 (3) 937

I am Mr. Consistency since April:
R1 (7): 936
R2 (6): 935
R3 (5): 942
R4 (3) 937

 

[DavidSauls]

Depends on the course and how smart the player is.

Therein lies my problem.

 

[jenb]

Philosophically, no one should have a problem if a player plays in the same division for one season no matter how good they get during that time.

FTR, I disagree with this statement. I've also been brainstorming new formats that generate competitive experiences based on how people are playing that day. For example, all one division first round. Everyone gets carded randomly. Card winners go in the top division for the second round. Card losers go in the bottom division. Tiered payout yields no motivation to bag the first round. Everyone in the top division cashes for more than the players in the middle division. Everyone in the middle division cashes for more than the players in the lowest division. Only card winners the second round cash in the lowest division. Something like that. Sort of a pooled match play system. No ratings required.

 

[Cgkdisc]

See barrel racing (NBHRA) for a format similar to that.

 

[AndyJB]

Ratings usually work out pretty well. As I said earlier, there are intentional ways of deception, playing off of the TD and all the work they have to put in the day of/day before. But often I would say that sandbagging is unintentional...some people just dont know. Sanctioned tournaments really have a low rate of sandbaggin, aside from the Rec division.

I hold that most INTENTIONAL sandbagging happens in non-sanctioned tourneys, and there is the big hiccup in the get-along. Because there is just no way to track that. The upshot to that is that non-snactioned tourneys tend to be smaller, therefore, less prizes/payouts are available in the first place.

 

[BADman]

has the pdga opened up the registry for 2013 yet?

 

[scarpfish]

I've also been brainstorming new formats that generate competitive experiences based on how people are playing that day. For example, all one division first round. Everyone gets carded randomly. Card winners go in the top division for the second round. Card losers go in the bottom division. Tiered payout yields no motivation to bag the first round. Everyone in the top division cashes for more than the players in the middle division. Everyone in the middle division cashes for more than the players in the lowest division. Only card winners the second round cash in the lowest division. Something like that. Sort of a pooled match play system. No ratings required.

Aside from the random carding, this is somewhat akin to how a flights tournament works. The problem with random carding is that much like random doubles, the cards aren't guaranteed to be equal caliber.

Under your system, someone who ends up finishing third on a strong card is essentially out of the money, even if they shoot lights out the rest of the tournament. Someone who ends up winning a weaker card is essentially guaranteed cash, even if they stink it up the rest of the way.

Needless to say, this thread has been an entertaining read, as it seems to be one 'solution in search of a problem' after another.

 

[ShopTom.com]

member or not the PDGA tracks a current rating regardless of membership status. It is my understanding that a TD has access to this info and it is on them to tell players if they are rated too high for a division.

Who is officially responsible for monitoring ratings? If the TD misses it for example, should the player be disqualified after the tournament for playing the wrong division?

I just finally became a PDGA member and it seems every tournament result I click on has players in divisions lower than their rating. So who's to blame?