Uli rule call?!

[JoakimBL]

so what do you think of the notion that the top card in an A-tier had difficulties with rules' calls and rules' interpetations?

I think exactly what I wrote above. Top pros especially should read the rules carefully, and understand them fully.

The made up rules and homemade interpretations of rules are rampant in the sport. In a self officiated sport that is a huge problem. In most other sports, it doesn't matter if you never read the rule book. There are officials and referees to tell you if you or your opponent did something wrong, and make the correct call.

However, if there was a dispute in the OP incident, I fail to understand why nobody just took out the rule-book and settled it. So I don't agree with Uli that the rule book should be as thick as a college text book. Fewer people would read it, even fewer still would understand it, and no one would carry it with them in their bag. I do however agree that at a major event, someone capable of settling a dispute needs to accompany the lead card. Different outcomes may lead to different approaches for the remainder of the round. Do you play it safe or aggressively? Well that may depend on whether or not that you went OB on that first hole (Or whether or not you received a penalty or not, or what ever it may be) and you cannot play provisionals for the entire round.

 

[mashnut]

Yes.. when i said the rule book was vague and people can interpret things differently i was not referring to this specific rule. The question you would have to ask yourself is why is this rule in place. That's how we (college and high school football officials) are trained to approach every possible situation. So like I said before, is a player 400+ ft away who is lined up for a fairway placement shot gaining a competitive advantage if he plants his foot 5 inches from where he should have? I think not, nor is he intentionally doing it to gain a competitive advantage. Rules are in place for safety and to maintain a fair competitive atmosphere, and I just don't see the point in calling infractions like these other than using the rule book itself to gain a competitive advantage.

There is a competitive advantage if one player is paying attention to hitting his mark on that 400' fairway shot, and another is just getting close and putting more concentration into his shot and less into hitting the right spot with his foot.

 

[JC17393]

my problem with foot faults is that for jump putts and run up shots I could feasibly call it every other time

I'd rather both methods were abolished

and don't tell me about gaining an advantage "many don't use these techniques due to fear of faulting....they inevitably get penalized for not breaking rules.

but really who wants to call a foot fault every other throw?

I'm of the opinion that if people actually called foot faults at all, foot faulting would become less of a problem.

This sport has a culture of letting a lot of rules violations slide under the auspices of not wanting to disrupt the vibe or be the jerk in the group...hence when a violation is properly called, we get situations like last weekend that spawn threads like this.

If that culture changed, and it became more commonplace and accepted to call rules violations every time they occurred, I think everyone would then become more conscientious while playing and the actual number of violations would decrease. The only reason people don't try harder now to not be in violation is there's no fear of being called. That applies to every level of player from Novices at a C-tier to Pros at an NT or Major.

Personally, I've been encouraged by what has occurred the last couple weeks at big A-tiers between the McBeth/Oates falling putt controversy two weeks ago and now the top players at the Yetter calling foot faults when they see them. The only bad thing about these occurrences is the reactions of the called player acting as if they've done nothing wrong. People need to have more integrity and accept that when they are called on a rules violation, they actually did do something wrong.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

so what do you think of the notion that the top card in an A-tier had difficulties with rules' calls and rules' interpetations?

Pros in all sports have problems interpreting rules and with rule calls, that is why in every major sport there are neutral officials.

 

[agapedad]

Unfortunately, larger rule book will mean even LESS people read and understand the rules. You would have to have an official follow every card then.

 

[IHearChains]

If people on one card want to give some leeway on rules violations, while another card is giving no leeway, then an element of unfairness is introduced. Competitive advantage might be insignificant, but how do you know unless you watch every card?

I shouldn't have to communicate with (or watch closely) the cards in front or behind me in order to make sure there's a level playing field. There's already enough to think about, just in my own game, and my own card. Just follow the friggin rules out of respect for the other participants, it is not that hard.

Now, if I am playing in a small event where there is only one card for my division, or in a casual round with one group, these issues are obviously less important. As long as everyone in the group agrees.

 

[lukebro22]

There is a competitive advantage if one player is paying attention to hitting his mark on that 400' fairway shot, and another is just getting close and putting more concentration into his shot and less into hitting the right spot with his foot.

I could very well be in the minority here, but this seems like you're reaching. This "reaching' is how people don't fallow the spirit of the rules, or the actual reason the rule is in place.

 

[The Hammer]

Yes.. when i said the rule book was vague and people can interpret things differently i was not referring to this specific rule. The question you would have to ask yourself is why is this rule in place. That's how we (college and high school football officials) are trained to approach every possible situation. So like I said before, is a player 400+ ft away who is lined up for a fairway placement shot gaining a competitive advantage if he plants his foot 5 inches from where he should have? I think not, nor is he intentionally doing it to gain a competitive advantage. Rules are in place for safety and to maintain a fair competitive atmosphere, and I just don't see the point in calling infractions like these other than using the rule book itself to gain a competitive advantage.

I actually disagree. 5in. can mean alot when there are trees involved. It could mean the diffence of hitting your hand on a tree during follow-thru. 5 in can also mean alot in terms of your ability to get a disc to turn enough for hitting gaps. Once you reach the pro tiers, you start to realize DG is also a game of inches.

 

[lukebro22]

Good example: there is a recent broadcast where Josh Anthon nudges his marker on a fairway drive. It was clear to anyone watching, but guess what?, no call, with what I believe to be good reason.

 

[Halcón]

Well, this thread blew up pretty quick.

 

[jongoff09]

There is a competitive advantage if one player is paying attention to hitting his mark on that 400' fairway shot, and another is just getting close and putting more concentration into his shot and less into hitting the right spot with his foot.

I completely agree with this. To be fair for everyone on the course, the rules should be enforced the same in every group, and that means all the rules in the book at all times.

 

[aardvarkious]

Yes.. when i said the rule book was vague and people can interpret things differently i was not referring to this specific rule. The question you would have to ask yourself is why is this rule in place. That's how we (college and high school football officials) are trained to approach every possible situation. So like I said before, is a player 400+ ft away who is lined up for a fairway placement shot gaining a competitive advantage if he plants his foot 5 inches from where he should have? I think not, nor is he intentionally doing it to gain a competitive advantage. Rules are in place for safety and to maintain a fair competitive atmosphere, and I just don't see the point in calling infractions like these other than using the rule book itself to gain a competitive advantage.

I really don't get how you can say that. True, if everyone on the card is getting away with similar footfaults, then no one on that card will have advantages over others on that card or cards that are calling/not calling similar infractions. But they most certainly will have advantages over the guys on another card who are calling every little thing.

 

[lukebro22]

I really don't get how you can say that. True, if everyone on the card is getting away with similar footfaults, then no one on that card will have advantages over others on that card or cards that are calling/not calling similar infractions. But they most certainly will have advantages over the guys on another card who are calling every little thing.

Well my point is that EVERYONE should understand why the rules were made and enforce them accordingly. It's definitely too much to ask, because it requires people making these calls to use common sense. I'm not going to keep repeating myself because you're the third person to make that point. I will never make such calls, and never second them if there is no competitive advantage gained, yes calls need to be consistent.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

5" is 5" Ref!

..So like I said before, if a player 400+ ft away who is lined up for a fairway placement shot gaining a competitive advantage if he plants his foot 5 inches from where he should have? I think not, nor is he intentionally doing it to gain a competitive advantage. Rules are in place for safety and to maintain a fair competitive atmosphere, and I just don't see the point in calling infractions like these other than using the rule book itself to gain a competitive advantage.

If there is "no competitive advantage" than why should the player be allowed to move his foot 5" away from his lie? Why should'nt he have to play by the rules? The only reason he would think to move his foot 5" or so so he could get a better shot at the target/line of flight. This is an advantage!
If he has to stand behind his lie (play by the rules) then he thinks he's screwed & he's gonna have to pitch out into the fairway & add a stroke. He doesnt want to do this so he cheats & puts his foot wherever he wants! If nobody sees him then he has gained an advantage.
But according to you this is OK because he's 400+ feet (or whatever magical number he makes up in his head) away from his target & that justifies the decision. Seriously?

Let's use your football analogy as an example: If a defensive lineman lines up 1" (let alone 5") over the line & the ball is snapped, it's offsides, right? Weather he intended to do so or not. The whistle blows & the his team gets a penalty. Why would he step his foot over an inch? To get closer to the quarterback (i.e. gain an advantage)!

How hard is it for a player to put their foot behind the marker/disc (follow the rule as written)? Take your lumps & make up the lost stroke on the next hole cheater. If you/we have some integrity & do the right thing we dont need anybody looking at your/our feet.

 

[MNcyclone]

How hard is it for a player to put their foot behind the marker/disc (follow the rule as written)?

I absolutely guarantee that you break this rule fairly consistently because everyone I have ever seen play disc golf over 20+ years has.

Is it hard to make sure you place your pivot over the line directly through the center of the mini and the basket? Of course it is!!! Your actual pivot is about a 4" circle on a toe pivot and is very small on a heel pivot. If you heel pivot you have to line up the majority of your foot off of the line because you will shift back onto the heel from the toe. On a run up this is nearly impossible. If you actually get your heel pivot on the line you got lucky.

 

[lukebro22]

I absolutely guarantee that you break this rule fairly consistently because everyone I have ever seen play disc golf over 20+ years has.

Is it hard to make sure you place your pivot over the line directly through the center of the mini and the basket? Of course it is!!! Your actual pivot is about a 4" circle on a toe pivot and is very small on a heel pivot. If you heel pivot you have to line up the majority of your foot off of the line because you will shift back onto the heel from the toe. On a run up this is nearly impossible. If you actually get your heel pivot on the line you got lucky.

this... and to answer your football question, people line up at least 1 inch in the neutral zone on just about every play.

 

[JC17393]

I absolutely guarantee that you break this rule fairly consistently because everyone I have ever seen play disc golf over 20+ years has.

Is it hard to make sure you place your pivot over the line directly through the center of the mini and the basket? Of course it is!!! Your actual pivot is about a 4" circle on a toe pivot and is very small on a heel pivot. If you heel pivot you have to line up the majority of your foot off of the line because you will shift back onto the heel from the toe. On a run up this is nearly impossible. If you actually get your heel pivot on the line you got lucky.

It's not as hard as you think it is IF YOU PRACTICE IT. You know why you've seen the rule broken consistently over the last 20+ years. BECAUSE NO ONE EVER CALLS IT! Why would most players practice to perfect something that isn't going to be called anyway?

However, if the trend became such that 90%+ of foot faults are called when they occur, there would be a much greater impetus for people to practice their fairway run-ups and work on hitting the mark every time. No different than if a player gets called on a falling putt a few times, they'll work harder to putt in such a way that they don't follow through and commit the violation.

Personally, I take playing by the rules seriously. I have spent hours of practice time working on hitting the mark consistently on a fairway run-up. I feel fairly comfortable saying I hit it with at least 98% consistency (and if I miss, I expect to be called on it). And in situations where I think I might miss it (rough/awkward terrain affects the length of my steps), I suck it up and throw the shot from a stand-still. Better to be legal and a few feet shorter than cheat the mark and gain distance down the fairway.

The concentration it takes to hit the mark really does affect the quality of the throw one can make. If another competitor is running up on the fairway with absolutely no regard for hitting the mark, he is gaining an advantage on me and anyone else who is conscientious enough to try to hit the mark. If you don't buy that, I challenge you to make a concerted effort to hit your mark on every fairway shot during your next practice round. Judge for yourself the difference between vaguely aiming for the mark and actually trying hard to hit it. Most people who do that change their mind about the advantage gained fairly quickly.

 

[MNcyclone]

I feel fairly comfortable saying I hit it with at least 98% consistency

Bullchit. I am willing to bet that you can't even identify your mark correctly 98% of the time.

 

[tallpaul]

Shenanigans!! Call a foot fault on each and every shot of every player and let the liaisons of the group decide the outcome. Shots should not determine the game; I say!!

 

[ashmgee]

You guys play by the rules?

This is why chucking is so fun. Nobody calls you on the rules. .....And if they did, they would surely get a 150' rhfh boss to the dome piece.