What did I just score?

[Thumber]

Here's a doozy that happened to me at league tonight.

I tee off and throw my drive deep into some shnarb.

I go into look, can't find it, my card comes in, can't find it, I start to walk back to the tee.

Get to the tee and hear " there it is!" Didn't tee off.

Walked back and the disc was 5 feet off the deck in heavy cover. I layed my mini, took a stance and threw a nice field craft shot out. Missed the putt and took a 4.

Got to the next tee and threw down the discs and saw the yellow driver I recovered from the crap was not, in fact, mine.

Immediately walked back to the tee. The trailing card hadn't teed off yet. I teed off and took a 4.

Then we sat down and tried to figure out what my penalties were.

Have to take one for the lost disc

Has to be a misplay at least once, and I think more than once likely.

I didn't tee off the first time I returned to the tee. If I walked back there, I had declared the disc lost, though I never said that out loud.

I then get a penalty because I walked up and played a lie that was illegal.

The question I have is, do I get penalty strokes for the next two shots established from the rescue shot from the wrong disc? Or do they just not count as my next legal shot was the 3rd time at the tee?

The way the td assessed the penalty was:

1 off the tee
1 P lost disc
1 P because I didn't tee off after de facto declaring the disc lost
1 P misplay from the wrong disc / lie
1 tee off again
3 putts

What a hole

I have never had a dg experience like that.

 

[Thumber]

I holed out twice.

Maybe I should have been DQ'd.

Would have helped my HC.

 

[jeverett]

Edit: I would think it's just a misplay. So 2-throw penalty for playing the hole wrong, based on how you played it the first time. If you got a 4, that would give you a 6. i.e. Once you discover that you misplayed a hole, you can't go back and fix the misplay.

 

[jeverett]

Second edit: found the rule:

803.03 - Misplay

G. Types of misplay:

Incorrect Lie. The player has:
Teed off from a teeing area that is not the correct teeing area for the current hole; or,
Thrown from a lie established by a disc other than the thrown disc; or,
Played an out-of-bounds disc as if it were in-bounds; or,
Thrown from a lie established by a previous throw which passed a mandatory on the wrong side.

If no subsequent throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall continue play from the correct lie and be assessed a one-throw penalty for the misplay. If an additional throw or throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall complete the hole being played and be assessed a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

So yes, as you finished the hole before discovering that you played from the wrong lie, your score would be the score you originally recorded for that hole (4) + 2 penalty throws = 6.

 

[Thumber]

So the replay from the tee is treated as a provisional action and not penalized?

 

[jeverett]

So the replay from the tee is treated as a provisional action and not penalized?

Unless someone wants to make the claim that all of those throws were practice throws, yes, none of those counted for anything. You'd already holed out.

 

[jeverett]

Edit: There are two other rules in section 803.03 that are sort-of related:

7. Incorrect Hole. The player has completed play on a hole that is not part of the course for that round, in place of a hole that is part of the course for the round. The hole shall stand as played, and two penalty throws shall be added to the player's total score.
8. Extra Hole. The player has completed play on a hole that is not part of the course for that round. Two penalty throws shall be added to the player's total score. Throws made on the extra hole are not counted.

It doesn't seem to me like your replaying of the hole precisely fits either of these criteria, though.

 

[Thumber]

I reteed because I didn't know what to do once I discovered it wasn't my disc. Figured reteeing would provide the td options.

 

[jeverett]

I reteed because I didn't know what to do once I discovered it wasn't my disc. Figured reteeing would provide the td options.

I feel like I'd be really hard-pressed to call those re-tee shots anything other than provisional throws, yes. They don't fit what I would think of as practice throws, and they were "ultimately not used in the completion of the hole":

804.06 - Provisional Throws

Provisional throws are extra throws that are not added to a player's score if they are not ultimately used in the completion of the hole. The use of provisional throws is encouraged in all situations where there is a question regarding a player's lie and a provisional throw would expedite play, or when the thrower questions a ruling. The unused throws are not to be added to the thrower's score nor treated as practice throws as long as the player announces that such additional throws are provisional throws prior to making them.

Edit: I would say as long as you announced that you were taking provisional throws, when the dust of that hole settled you should have had the 6 still.

 

[geoloseth]

Second edit: found the rule:

If no subsequent throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall continue play from the correct lie and be assessed a one-throw penalty for the misplay. If an additional throw or throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall complete the hole being played and be assessed a two-throw penalty for the misplay.[/I]

So yes, as you finished the hole before discovering that you played from the wrong lie, your score would be the score you originally recorded for that hole (4) + 2 penalty throws = 6.

This would be the correct rule to use. It would be your score (4) + 2 penalty throws for completing the hole from the incorrect lie.

For future note, if any scenario comes about where you think you should replay a shot always make sure that the group knows that your replay/shot is a provisional. Mark down both scores and then let the TD make the final ruling. Going back to retee like you mentioned without announcing the throws as being provisional throws could open a can or worms that would make my head spin.

I always hear from one TD in my area, 'If in doubt, call a provisional'

 

[Dan Ensor]

A TD could DQ you for an intentional misplay for competitive advantage. As you declared that disc lost, but then played from it.

Other than that, I believe a 6 is the highest score you could be given, since I don't think you can be assessed practice throw penalties after the mis-play (per the multiple penalties clause).

 

[ejvogie]

I didn't tee off the first time I returned to the tee. If I walked back there, I had declared the disc lost, though I never said that out loud.

If you never said it out loud, it was never "declared" lost, IMO.

Although it could have been assumed from your actions (walking back to the tee).

 

[Dan Ensor]

The disc is lost after the expiration of the 3 minute clock.

 

[Thumber]

The three minutes were not expired before I headed back to the tee. I was in there for a little while before the rest of my card mates waded into the crap. It was ugly stuff and they were hoping I would find it quickly and they wouldn't have had to head in.

 

[JC17393]

The three minutes were not expired before I headed back to the tee. I was in there for a little while before the rest of my card mates waded into the crap. It was ugly stuff and they were hoping I would find it quickly and they wouldn't have had to head in.

IMO walking back to retee is tacit declaration that the disc is lost. If the official 3 minutes hasn't elapsed, no one, least of all the thrower, should be giving up the search. If the search is being abandoned, the disc is lost.

 

[Kodachrome]

IMO walking back to retee is tacit declaration that the disc is lost. If the official 3 minutes hasn't elapsed, no one, least of all the thrower, should be giving up the search. If the search is being abandoned, the disc is lost.

the search was not abandoned. others were still looking and 3 minutes was still in effect.

OP never communicated his intent; there was never a declaration of anything.

 

[Thumber]

the search was not abandoned. others were still looking and 3 minutes was still in effect.

OP never communicated his intent; there was never a declaration of anything.

The whole situation was poorly handled by me. Technically, the disc was lost when I started back to the tee.

There is a precedent around here though that if the disc is found by the rest of the card before you re-tee then you are good to go, but I recognize this is outside the rules. "Head back to the tee and re-tee. If we find it before you get back we'll holler and you are good to go" sort of thing.

 

[Bamm]

When I can't find a disc, I will sometimes walk back towards the tee to get a better frame of reference as to where the disc went. So I disagree that walking back to the tee declares a lost disc.

 

[JC17393]

When I can't find a disc, I will sometimes walk back towards the tee to get a better frame of reference as to where the disc went. So I disagree that walking back to the tee declares a lost disc.

Walking back to get a frame of reference is a perfectly valid thing to do. I've done it myself many times. So yes, doing so isn't abandoning the search or calling it off. But that isn't what he was doing in this particular instance. It's pretty clear from what he's posted that he wasn't going back to the tee to get a frame of reference. He admittedly was going back with the intent to retee as required by the rule. That act, to me, is a tacit declaration that the disc is lost.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's a good practice to declare when your disc is lost or force the player in your group to make the declaration to avoid the situation where it's found before the player makes their next throw.