What's happening at the Tim Selinske Masters??

[markmcc]

Paul McBeth posted this on Facebook:

There is no excuse for a PDGA Major! They should be the smoothest running tournaments in our sport. I understand payout depends on sponsorships but there is no excuses for what's going on at the Tim Selinske US Masters Championships.

Anyone know what's up??

 

[lines]

I clicked on the link...

Tim Selinske US Masters Championship. A PDGA MAJOR disappointment. I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon and complain but it's time to say something. I have been running events, playing and attending major tournaments for a long time and this is getting ridiculous. I'm not putting Steve on blast or the few people that are volunteering their time to help because the PDGA is allowing this to happen. Masters Worlds the last two years has been a joke. The US Masters this year is a joke. I realize that this age bracket isn't what draws in spectators and you tube viewers but it doesn't change the fact that you promote these events as Major Championships. They are glorified C Tiers. Zero effort, zero pageantry, horrible turnout, jamming 3 shotgun starts into one day, garage mats pieced together for tee pads and playing 2 good courses in 4 rounds of competition. Maybe if you put in more effort more people would show. Perhaps if this wasn't the ass end of a three week stretch of major events for the tournament director this would be better. Where are the standards for this. I realize age protected divisions are an afterthought for you but we pay our fees and spend our money as well. Half assed events are a bad look. Courses covered in glass and needles are a bad look. Offending and tossing aside a large portion of the pioneers of this sport is a bad look. This needs to change. There needs to be effort involved by the PDGA and the tournament director otherwise please stop wasting our time and money.

From Jonathan Ray.

 

[mj20300]

It just had no feel at all of being what is called a Major by the PDGA. Felt more like a local B or C tier event

 

[biscoe]

Waaaay too many Majors in this game...

 

[JC17393]

McBeth ought to shut his damn mouth. He wasn't there, we don't need his uninformed opinion.

The only people bitching were the so-called elites, spoiled by the extra attention that the MPO/FPO majors (and NTs and DGPTs) tend to get. The event wasn't at the level of an MPO major to be certain, but it felt pretty damn big and important to me, a player who doesn't often get to such events.

 

[LukeButch]

Waaaay too many Majors in this game...

this.

USDGC, Worlds, European Open. that should be it.


too many majors and WAY too many divisions these days. everyone's a winner/participation trophy culture.

 

[LukeButch]

McBeth ought to shut his damn mouth. He wasn't there, we don't need his uninformed opinion.

The only people bitching were the so-called elites, spoiled by the extra attention that the MPO/FPO majors (and NTs and DGPTs) tend to get. The event wasn't at the level of an MPO major to be certain, but it felt pretty damn big and important to me, a player who doesn't often get to such events.

the payout looked quite bad and newton hill is not even an A tier quality course let alone a major. its a fun, cool course just not suitable for a big tournament.

 

[JC17393]

the payout looked quite bad and newton hill is not even an A tier quality course let alone a major. its a fun, cool course just not suitable for a big tournament.

The payout met minimum standards for the event. If people had higher expectations than the minimum, that's on them.

Newton Hill has its flaws, but what exactly is an "A tier quality course"? I've played A-tiers on much worse courses than it. I recall playing at least one Am Worlds on a lesser course than it. Which brings me to the key thing to bear in mind with this event...the Selinske is not a Pro major. It is a Pro-Am major. Thus there have to be courses that are appropriate for amateur levels of play, and to the chagrin of some of the elite players, scheduling requires that the pros play a round (or two) on those courses. I think Newton meets those standards (haphazard tee surfaces aside).

The vibe I get from all the whining is that some players didn't feel catered to enough. And the problem in that is that this tournament isn't all about catering to them alone.

 

[TimSyl]

Not shocked DF is one of the players complaining.

 

[DavidSauls]

this.

USDGC, Worlds, European Open. that should be it.

One day we'll bestow the title of Super-Majors on those, to reflect their status above mere Majors.

 

[SD86]

McBeth ought to shut his damn mouth. He wasn't there, we don't need his uninformed opinion.

Disagree. McBeth's comments seemed to be more general that just this one tournament, and McBeth is lending his voice to try to increase the quality of Disc Golf tournaments and Disc Golf in general.. If the complaints about the Selinske Masters are valid, then it's all the more important to speak out to try to get improvements in tournaments and the sport.

This reminds me of Bobby Fischer in the 1960s. He was vilified for demanding better conditions and pay in professional chess events, but the changes he created still benefit Chess and pro chessplayers to this day.

If you (plural) want to 'grow the sport' of Disc Golf, and want PPV to succeed for Disc Golf, y'all should welcome Paul McBeth's comments, not curse him for his efforts to make things better.

 

[_MTL_]

All that post accomplished was once again proving why a large majority of tournament directors don't want to run anything with pros, especially on the games highest level.

I'm sure, as with every event in disc golf, there some things that could have been better, cleaner, etc, but a majority of the complaints were complete ignorance from never being involved with a high level event and / or over expectations beyond a standard that was met.

 

[JC17393]

Disagree. McBeth's comments seemed to be more general that just this one tournament, and McBeth is lending his voice to try to increase the quality of Disc Golf tournaments and Disc Golf in general.. If the complaints about the Selinske Masters are valid, then it's all the more important to speak out to try to get improvements in tournaments and the sport.

This reminds me of Bobby Fischer in the 1960s. He was vilified for demanding better conditions and pay in professional chess events, but the changes he created still benefit Chess and pro chessplayers to this day.

If you (plural) want to 'grow the sport' of Disc Golf, and want PPV to succeed for Disc Golf, y'all should welcome Paul McBeth's comments, not curse him for his efforts to make things better.

Except Paul's comments weren't constructive at all and they were ill-informed as well. He wasn't there. He is going off second-hand complaints to make third-hand comments. It's not helpful in the least. It's like if Rory McIlroy chimed in about some aspect of the US Senior Open. He's not playing the event, he's not even eligible to play, I find it irrelevant what he has to say about it.

I don't know what McBeth's definition of smoothly is, but having been at the tournament, I thought things ran as smoothly as any other big event I've attended. Tee times were right on time until late in the day Sunday (my 2:20 tee time started at 2:25, but hole 1 gold is a ****ing bitch to start on). There were minor delays on Saturday relative to the planned schedule, but how many tournaments hit their marks perfectly when it comes to turning around for round 2? The first round teed off at exactly 8am. The second round was on the schedule for 11:30 and went off at 11:45. The third round of the day was scheduled for 3:00 and went off at 3:20.

And all along, communication was perfect and everyone was kept informed of whatever minor adjustments were made. Not only that, but the shotgun start schedule and the course assignments were known MONTHS in advance, so it's not as though it should have been a surprise thing that players were unprepared for. Anyone upset about having to get in their car after the first round of the day and drive 12 minutes up the road for round two, or that the break wasn't long enough (it was an hour), are fools.

 

[Streets]

Most touring pros are just the worst.

 

[Hampstead]

McBeth ought to shut his damn mouth. He wasn't there, we don't need his uninformed opinion.

The only people bitching were the so-called elites, spoiled by the extra attention that the MPO/FPO majors (and NTs and DGPTs) tend to get. The event wasn't at the level of an MPO major to be certain, but it felt pretty damn big and important to me, a player who doesn't often get to such events.

Interesting to see this after MJ's post.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

this.

USDGC, Worlds, European Open. that should be it.


too many majors and WAY too many divisions these days. everyone's a winner/participation trophy culture.

I don't want to make our sport more like ball golf, but for majors they have it right. I like the idea of having 4 majors:

USDGC - Always at the same course
Worlds - As the sport grows can be held anywhere in the world
European open - Can be held anywhere in Europe
a 4th major - something that rotates around the US/North America to start with but any country can bid on it (we are years away from needing more than one major outside the US)

 

[biscoe]

Most touring pros are just the worst.

Nah... some are great to deal with, most are fine to deal with, and a vocal minority are a total pain in the ass- same as most people.

 

[ThrowBot]

Honest question, because I don't know the history of the event:

Does the US Masters get less attention now that Pro Masters Worlds is a separate event from MPO/FPO Worlds? Seems like it would make sense, since the US Masters may no longer be seen as THE premier Masters-only event of the year.

So maybe that downgrade in status is a contributing factor, if the US Masters isn't living up to [certain players'] expectations.

 

[Streets]

Nah... some are great to deal with, most are fine to deal with, and a vocal minority are a total pain in the ass- same as most people.

Fair enough...I guess the vocal minority just make most of them look like divas

 

[JC17393]

Before this thread gets hijacked into the 1043rd rendition of the "what I think majors should be" discussion, something needs to be made clear. Every time this discussion comes up, the arguments tend to discount any major that doesn't involve MPO as not a "real" major, which is a faulty premise to start from. So let's be clear whether we're talking MPO only or majors across all ages and genders.

This year...
there are 3 MPO majors: Worlds, USDGC, European Open
there are 3 FPO majors: Worlds, USWDGC, European Open
there are 2 Pro age-protected majors: Worlds, Selinske
there are 3 Amateur (MA1/FA1) majors: Am Worlds, USADGC/USWDGC, Am World Doubles
there are 3 Amateur age-protected majors: Am Worlds, Selinske, Am World Doubles
there is 1 Junior major: Jr Worlds

Using ball golf as a comparison

Four majors for their equivalent of MPO: US Open, British Open, PGA Championship, The Masters
Five majors for their equivalent of FPO: US Women's Open, British Women's Open, LPGA Championship, ANA Inspiration, Evian Championship
Five majors for their age-protected tour (50+): US Senior Open, British Senior Open, Senior PGA Championship, Senior Players Championship, The Tradition
Also major championships for amateurs: US Amateur, US Amateur 4-ball, US Mid-Amateurs (with variations for Seniors, Juniors, and Women) Plus amateur versions of the British Open as well.

Do we really have "too many"?