Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Opinions are a beautiful thing.
It's my opinion that this LB person has no clue what they are talking about.
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What's happening at the Tim Selinske Masters??
- Thread starter markmcc
- Start date
Opinions are a beautiful thing.
It's my opinion that this LB person has no clue what they are talking about.
I hope that every one of the 15+ winners that are crowned at the 2019 USWDGC in Virginia gets to experience much celebration and recognition for the achievement of winning a US Title and winning a PDGA Major Event.
Once upon a time, there was no such thing as a women's only event - let alone a PDGA Major event for women! The USWDGC began as One Division, One Champion event, just like the USDGC. When the event moved from Rock Hill to Peoria in 2002, the Wallis family and the Peoria Frisbee Club ran the event like a Major. They had all the extra touches that make an event a major. There were player packs for everyone, scorekeepers for every card of players, lunches between rounds and special activities for the players. Eventually more divisions were added so that MORE women would want to attend the event. The effort to add more age protected pro and am divisions was spearheaded by Becky Zallek! Every year in Peoria, there was a Final Nine Showcase for ALL of the divisions, not just the FPO! It was great to see the Junior players take the stage for the Final Nine. All the players felt elevated and empowered and this wasn't just "another event" It was different, it felt different and all the women players felt recognized...not just the Pros!
In 2008, the USWDGC became a travelling Major event up for bid. Eventually some organizers decided they wanted to host the "largest event ever" so they started adopting not so awesome TD practices to achieve larger fields. Events added temporary holes, mixed divisions, added ghost cards, stopped providing player packs for Pros and the final nine showcases were discarded. The focus was on "more players" not on a "better experience". Once upon a time winning a division at the USWDGC was a fantastic achievement and the victory was celebrated. It was an amazing feeling to be a part of lifting up all women players, not just the FPO players. This event uniquely brought all women together to celebrate all women.
Now, somehow winning a US Women's title is nothing special because there are "so many" of them? Or they are just not special because they are Am titles or Master titles or Women's titles?
<3 I hope that each and every Champion at the 2019 USWDGC gets to experience celebration and recognition for the achievement of winning the US Title AND a PDGA Major event. <3
Glide
Birdie Member
I was the TD for 2016 Am Worlds in Madison, WI. The previous year was in Kalamazoo, MI and they had 752 players. With the courses we had, we felt comfortable with 576 players. When the event quickly sold out, some of the people who didn't get in felt the tournament was regressing because there were going to be less people than the year before. Mind you it was still tied for the 5th largest Am Worlds ever. We went with quality over quantity and are glad we did.
Mr. Glide,
I hear the general message you're trying to send with the post listed above and I understand that as a TD you don't 'make PDGA policy' (inclusion criteria such as automatic bids, etc.) but please note that the players who finished 2nd and 3rd in Adv GM the year before didn't get in because they "couldn't type fast enough"...so the bolded (which I did) part of your statement above really doesn't hold water.
I think it does. We're wrestling with a local event we run, that filled in an hour last year and may fill much quicker this year. Our options for taking more players means diminishing the quality for everyone. So we're going for quality of quantity, too---the best possible event for those who manage to get in.
As a player I've had that rug pulled out from under me---registered for an event to find that at the last moment, they made changes to add more players and diminish the experience. I've also been left out because I couldn't type fast enough, so I know that anguish, but I'd rather events focus on quality.
As a player I've had that rug pulled out from under me---registered for an event to find that at the last moment, they made changes to add more players and diminish the experience. I've also been left out because I couldn't type fast enough, so I know that anguish, but I'd rather events focus on quality.
So what's your solution to this issue?
Glide
Birdie Member
Fair enough Karl. I was referring to the event itself...not the registration process. As the host, we were responsible for specific aspects of the event. The PDGA handled the rest including registration, how many spots per division, how many trophies per division, etc.
Yes, because the average 45 year old would be competitive with Eagle at the Memorial.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
If that's your takeaway, sure.
I think the real topic at hand was supposed to be the PDGAs lack of standards across majors. We have technical standards for discs and baskets, but ignore player safety by not having the same for our tee areas. That's on the PDGA not each event. While his point was brought up via the US Master's event, I don't think he was trying to pick at that event or the staff, but more so that the PDGA shouldn't be approving sub par courses with dangerous tee pads or other course issues for our Majors, NTs, and larger events.
Part of the responsibility of the PDGA is to inspect and approve courses for use in Majors and I think a lot of folks would just like to see better standards adhered to.
Part of the responsibility of the PDGA is to inspect and approve courses for use in Majors and I think a lot of folks would just like to see better standards adhered to.
There was nothing at all dangerous about any of the tee pads (or the courses in general) at this year's US Masters. The teeing surfaces were a bit inconsistent (size and material), but there was absolutely nothing dangerous about them. Not every course can have 20 foot long, perfectly textured pads to accommodate the James Conrad-style run-up.
I think we have to be careful to distinguish true technical standards and players' personal preferences if we're going to discuss course standards. That said, I've yet to find the one course where not a single player found some flaw to complain about. That's not just pros, that's any skill level.
I think this is a nice summary of how TD's should be viewing their events. Nobody is entitled to gain entry into any event....outside of those event who set aside spots for champs, and such. Everyone goes into the registration with the same chance to gain entry. Quality over quantity should ALWAYS be the guideline. I too have been on both ends of the examples above.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Old folks need to type faster...
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2008
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- 4,783
For crowded events, especially PDGA Majors, Worlds, etc, I like to see preference given to players with higher ratings.
I know, I know, that this is somewhat difficult to administer and that some events already have ratings-tiered registration.
It has a few things going for it.
First, it rewards better play over time (seems pretty natural),
Second, (hopefully) it penalizes sandbagging.
Thoughts?
I know, I know, that this is somewhat difficult to administer and that some events already have ratings-tiered registration.
It has a few things going for it.
First, it rewards better play over time (seems pretty natural),
Second, (hopefully) it penalizes sandbagging.
Thoughts?
Royalhghnss
Double Eagle Member
Ok, you can't just throw a statement like that out there and then not give us a reason why.
A lot of complaining about where the catch cam was standing (who's standing totally still 300+ feet away...), more complaining about where the slow mo cam was (also standing totally still).
These are the exact same positions we've (and Jomez/everyone) used to film mpo on that course (and every other course too), and no one says anything (99% of the time).
:\
I realize this doesn't reflect on all Masters (and not everyone we filmed that week), so hopefully it was just that tourney.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
JohnE! JohnE!
I don't know about either of those reasons. Best argument for it at Worlds is that the best should be competing for the championship.
But you'd reward the guy who plays 3 PDGA events a year---but plays well---over the guy who plays 35. The latter might get some credit for being such an active participant in the organization.
and all the other '...quality...' posts here:
How about the "quality" of the player(s)? That's a facet of a championship (along with courses, amenities, etc.) too you know!
Chains Bailey
Birdie Member
Please point out where he said that the titles were "nothing special" verse just pointing out the fact that there are many titles in general.
This was my first US Masters. I played Am 40 and thought it was great. We got two rounds at Maple Hill, which is still my #1 course. 501 is the 2nd best course in the state, and everyone I talked to loved it. Newton Hill is admittedly average. The broken glass is a little eye opening, but the course itself is good. I don't have much to compare it to, but I wouldn't expect most multi-course tournaments have a better overall mix.
I agree that the emails on course rules and OB were a little sparse. And the 4-hour break for Am 40 between rounds on Saturday was long, but I used the time to follow the top card around at Maple Hill for half a round. And to get a taco (yes, there was a food vendor). And to have a beer. And to be thankful that Dorian didn't bring any rain. There are worse ways to spend an afternoon.
I'm legitimately curious though from people who have been to other US Masters, is the vibe different? What was better or worse?
I agree that the emails on course rules and OB were a little sparse. And the 4-hour break for Am 40 between rounds on Saturday was long, but I used the time to follow the top card around at Maple Hill for half a round. And to get a taco (yes, there was a food vendor). And to have a beer. And to be thankful that Dorian didn't bring any rain. There are worse ways to spend an afternoon.
I'm legitimately curious though from people who have been to other US Masters, is the vibe different? What was better or worse?
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