What's more important

[KniceZ]

I see lot's of thread in the technique forum asking "how can i throw farther". There's also plenty of "how to putt" and how do I shape this throw questions. So this begs the question:

I know this will not be easy to pick and some of the options I've intentionally worded a little extreme - but - what is the most important aspect that a new player should focus on to be competitive at the Intermediate level?

Please add any other aspect not in the poll.

 

[KniceZ]

Meant to add a poll but messed up. So here's my options:

- being able to sink putts from outside the circle
- being able to park approaches from 200'+
- being able to shape drives in all directions
- having a wide variety of throwing options - e.g. FH, BH, Rollers, Thumbers, etc
- being able to drive 400+'

 

[CwAlbino]

Experimentation. Yes you can practice the same thing over and over, but when you hit that situation in tournament that you've never tried before, you won't know what to do. If you throw a bad shot into the woods, take a step back and look. Find an opening, maybe not the one that you are used to, but find one. Now experiment, is it possible to throw a forehand roller out of there? Maybe it's higher and you can throw a tomahawk, a forehand anhyzer, maybe you just need to throw the roller higher and with a different angle. Figuring out what you can and cannot do with a disc is what will help you improve now and in the future. So many people just play the same course over and over, they throw the same shots on the same holes. When I'm teaching someone, I always try to go over to them on their outshot or difficult upshot, and talk them through what lines are available and show how to throw each one, and then have them throw each.

There was a thread a while back where someone said it irritated them when someone asked what disc they used, and that is actually one way to learn. If you see someone throw a nice hyzer around a group of trees, you might try the same thing. You throw a firebird and it cuts early and you are now in the middle of the clump of trees. What you didn't know is that he threw an understable disc on a slightly more extreme angle so as to throw what is called a "flattened" hyzer, making the disc carry longer. Now for most people, throwing an understable disc on a hyzer would never have even occurred to them as a good idea. Because you didn't ask, or because the guy was an ass and wouldn't tell you or explain it to you, you are now just frustrated with this hyzer shot.

rh/bh
hyzers
hyzer flips and their variations
flattened hyzers
spike hyzers
stalls and elevator shots
turnovers
late turnovers
pan shots (anhyzer that fades to flat as it comes back and hits the ground)
sky anhyzers
rollers (bh,fh,thumber,cut,S)
overhands (thumber,tommy)
grenades
scoobies
loft, push, spin, pop putts


All of these are useful and somewhat common throws, and many don't even get used on the course. Some people might be able to throw a few of these, but I have rarely seen anyone be able to throw all of them at command or even remotely accurate.

 

[Speedly]

Of your list there, I'd say

- being able to park approaches from 200'+

closely followed by outside the circle putts. The only reason I have a single digit handicap on my home course (as opposed to double digits) is because my approach game is a strong part of my ability.

 

[KniceZ]

CwAlbino - I've obviously got a lot to learn cause I don't even know what some of those shots are!!

 

[CwAlbino]

CwAlbino - I've obviously got a lot to learn cause I don't even know what some of those shots are!!

rh/bh (put this there to specify bh or fh, but I put rhbh instead )

hyzers

Any throw (righthand backhand) where the disc comes out of the hand at an angle in / direction from flat --- and finishes left without flipping to flat.

Variations:
Overstable disc where it continues to dive farther in it's angle away from flat

Stable disc where it holds the line you put it on, it may drop the angle more as it slows down



hyzer flips and their variations

A disc that is released at the same angle as mentioned above in hyzer

difference: The disc flips up to level ----

Variations:

After the disc flips to level, it can either

-Stay flat until the end
-Stay flat and then finish left
-Stay flat and then finish right (hyzer flipped late turnover)
-Flip over into a turnover and finish right (also can be thrown high and left for a very long turnover/anhyzer)
-Flip over into a turnover and fade at the end, variations of how long it stays in the turnover changes the shape of the S line


flattened hyzers

Also a hyzer release. This is a shot that is almost a hyzer flip. It never quite makes it to flat ---. This allows for more glide, more carry, and a very long and smooth hyzer out and around. This can be touchy because if you flip it over completely it can be disastrous.

spike hyzers

A very extreme hyzer. This shot requires good shoulder planes and follow through. Anytime you throw the hyzer high or at an extreme enough angle to not skip (or have the chance to skip), it is a spike hyzer. The disc should go up and down almost vertically. A very good up and over tool

stalls and elevator shots

Stalls are just anytime you throw a shot "too high" on purpose, so that it stalls and fades or drops. Most useful as an upshot, an understable disc thrown with a little palm down flick (ultimate lid shot) can go out straight and then drop straight down (elevator shot).

Mark Ellis goes over it a little at 7:05 in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwqQ21pe4U

turnovers/anhyzers

I'll lump these in with anhyzers. A turnover is anytime a disc is thrown on a hyzer or flat release, and finishes right. An anhyzer is when the disc is thrown on an anhyzer \ release, and still finishes right (without being a roller).


pan shots

These shots require a slightly more stable disc, an overstable disc is often too much. When thrown on an anhyzer release, it goes out like anny should, but it starts fading. It should reach the ground just before or as pans out (hence the name) ---.

sky anhyzers

These are just really high anhyzers. It takes a lot of nose down, and always finishes right. Sky Rollers are essentially the same shot, but it turns over completely and will roll for quite some time once it hits the ground.

rollers (bh,fh,thumber,cut,S)

Pretty self explanatory
bh = thrown with a backhand, either using your body to increase the angle on a stable->overstable disc or flipping over an understable disc to touch down at varying points of the pre-roll flight
fh = forehand
thumber= a forehand roller that will finish the other way because it's thrown with the thumb on the rim instead of the fingers
cut = A roller that rolls in the direction of the bottom of the disc and finishes bottom down. Most discs are top heavy and will want to finish top down, a cut roller is best done with a thin disc (like a flick)

overhands

tomahawk and thumber are both thrown like a baseball (remember to follow through). The grip is the difference, tomahawks are with the standard forehand grip, the thumber grip you put your thumb on the rim. The disc will have the opposite flight pattern for each, and depending on what angle you release or the stability of the disc, it will turn at varying speeds or finish farther left/right.

grenades

Throw a backhand hyzer, now turn the disc upside down and put your thumb on the rim while maintaining the normal backhand type grip. This will make the disc go really high and almost vertical in angle then drop straight down. Good for up and overs.

scoobies

There are quite a few different shot variations for just this one name, but in general it's just a disc that is slid on it's top toward the pin. It can be a short shot that you slide from the release, or a thumber/tomahawk scoobie that hits the ground on it's top and slides toward the pin or under something.

loft, push, spin, pop putts

All variations of putts

loft, thrown high and with spin. Usually just a straight up and down shot with not much variance left and right. Bad in the wind, very minimal blowby

push, less spin, more body momentum. Accurate at close range and not much blowby

spin putt, lots of spin, longest range putting style. Also very streaky. There are many variable in a spin putt, up/down/left/right/power. Most players have some sort of spin putt for longer distances, the blowby can result in putting multiple times at the same basket.

pop putts, very similar to push putts. Uses body momentum and finger spring to minimize any left/right movement and make you worry only about up/down. blowby should be about the same as push putting

 

[The Bard]

The biggest advice for a new player who is looking to move to being competitive at the intermediate level is to make your learning experience as simple as possible. That means you don't want to try to buy 10 discs that all should do different things. You probably won't be able to keep track of it all, let alone notice the subtle differences. Also this means IMO you don't want to learn every single type of possible shot, at least not yet. You won't be spending enough time on the most important things like a good backhand/forehand technique and committing to memory how those fly.

Playing well at the intermediate level is all about trying to make birdies and avoiding bogies or worse. Most holes are par 3's. Because of this desire to hopefully get birdies, driving is very important and should be 50% of your game. Here, different shot selection options is important. Keeping it simple, you should probably start out throwing backhand and forehand and getting comfortable with both having relatively good success with both. Sure you could try thumbers, rollers, etc, but I feel like that would only complicate things and take less focus away from the most important shots.

Another 25% is putting. I'm talking within the circle putting. This is where you want to be confident that you can (not necessarily will) hit putts within the circle. Nearly parking upshots or drives does no good if you can't sink a high percentage within 20 ft. Knowing different types of shots isn't too useful here in most situations since it's pretty straight forward. Just practicing your plain ole' putting technique, nothing complicated here.

The other 25% is what happens when your drive doesn't go the way you need for birdie. This is either your drive doesn't go far enough, or you find yourself in a difficult lie with trees as major obstacles or whatever. Here the chance of a shot going in is less than 10%, so you just want to park it. This is also where knowing different shots is very helpful. If you for example throw backhand only, having a good forehand will save you a few strokes. Probably the next shot type I would recommend trying out is a tomahawk/thumber for those short shots over objects. I find these are "relatively" easy to throw with moderate success, but something I don't throw often.

In the very end IMO you want to make sure you have a really good backhand shot. In the end you should be getting the most distance and accuracy with a backhand. Notice the very high percentage of shots the top pros throw with backhand.

Just as an aside, if you haven't checked out any videos online, look for disc golf videos on Youtube. I've found that the Discraft Clinic videos are really great and have taught me a lot.

These are just my thoughts, not saying it with 100% certainty. Just what I've experienced moving from beginner to now competitive intermediate player. I know I probably haven't answered your question in the way you asked, so sorry if that's the case. But I hope it helps some!

 

[chris717]

Very nice thread, great feedback.

 

[Star Shark]

Most important thing is being able to place your shot where you want it. 450' of distance doesn't help you any if you're OB or miss the mando.

 

[MNcyclone]

This question is a bit unsettling to me. I would never want to strive to be a good INT player, if I were just starting out I would try to improve in a way that would make me a good open player. At any rate, since the question was how to be a good INT player, here we go...

Being a good INT player means getting pars. Any bogeys you throw should be offset by a birdie. That being said, you aren't hunting for birds, you are looking to be nice and steady. A 54 will win INT on a moderately challenging course.

Putting from outside the circle is not at a premium here. This usually only comes into play when you are going for birds. Driving 400'+ again is for getting birds out of long holes, unless you are playing 600' holes where INT players are in for some bad scores anyways.

Shaping drives is a good skill to have. The thing is that shooting for pars you really don't need to shape drives that much. On any given hole two straight shots will generally get you to the target without crazy lines. This same rationale goes for being able to throw lots of shots. Who needs crazy rollers or flicks when two straight rhbh shots will get you a putt at par?

Which brings me to my choice, parking upshots from 200' out. If you can park an upshot from 200', that means any hole 400' and in is a par. It also means holes 200' and in are birds. You are shooting for par, this is the way to go.

 

[jenb]

Short game is where it's at. I'd focus on putts inside the circle, and approaches and lines inside of 200 feet. Most courses can be parred or better by putting together a series of precise shots under 200 feet, with accurate putting inside the circle.

I know plenty of rec rated players who drive far. I recently saw one park a 540 foot hole that was wide open. But if you want to win, then learn to love your putter so much that you weep with sorrow every time you have to turn to another disc for the task at hand.

 

[WillGrrr]

Field work and putting practice.

 

[Smigles]

I think it depends on the person and the stage they are in.

I started 1.5 years ago. When I started, I couldnt get past 150 feet, couldnt throw a anhyzer, couldnt put outside 10 feet. So I first started training putting and distance.

Now that I have those down, I noticed that precision is more deciding for me nowadays than distance. So now I am practicing tunnel shots, shots with mandatories etc. Still practice putting of course.

I'd say putting will always be very very important, but there is a point where additional distance will not get you that much further. I can now throw 400 constantly and 450 occasionaly, and there arent many holes here in switzerland where I even need that kind of distance. So now I am back to refining my technique, practicing accuracy. And putting.

 

[Dthunderchicken]

Short game is where it's at. I'd focus on putts inside the circle, and approaches and lines inside of 200 feet. Most courses can be parred or better by putting together a series of precise shots under 200 feet, with accurate putting inside the circle.

This:thmbup: Hence the axiom: Drive for show, putt for dough.

 

[Beable]

I agree with the folks saying that getting consistent pars is the most important thing. As an intermediate player, I can say that I've felt huge improvements in my game this year by playing a short technical course over and over (Schenley). Putting is the worst part of my game by far, and what I practice the most when I'm not playing a round. Not saying that my experience is universal, though. Approach shots have always been the strongest part of my game since I played a lot of Ultimate and beach frisbee.

 

[dkoz]

Everything will come in time .....EXCEPT PUTTING!!!

 

[Roc1Time]

Drive for show, putt for dough

 

[GLong]

But if you want to win, then learn to love your putter so much that you weep with sorrow every time you have to turn to another disc for the task at hand.

truth.

Meant to add a poll but messed up. So here's my options:

- being able to sink putts from outside the circle
- being able to park approaches from 200'+
- being able to shape drives in all directions
- having a wide variety of throwing options - e.g. FH, BH, Rollers, Thumbers, etc
- being able to drive 400+'

from someone who is moving up to Adv, you don't have to be quite that good to play competitively in Int. The field is generally weak - a lot of Rec players that have been playing long enough to feel like they are 'better' than Rec but aren't, and some players that have a decently well-rounded game but generally suck at putting. A lot of people move up to Adv after they win once in Int, or if all their friends play up.

you really just need to be able to putt inside the circle, no 3 putts, approach decently from 150'ish, have a few get out of trouble shots, and drive 350'. I mean if you can putt decently outside the circle, you're an Adv player as long as your drive doesn't totally blow. Good putting makes up for many sins.

 

[Hippy]

Putt, putt, putt!!!!!! Getting there is half the battle!!!! Once you get there!!! It has to go in!!!! Anybody can get there!!!! Putt, putt, putt!!!!!!!

 

[GLong]

i meant to add this before, but forgot:

get a practice basket. and actually use it.