Whaa Whaa Worlds

[optidiscic]

sooo much thread drift but a great thread nonetheless

I am in the camp that off the fairway leaves you with some kind of recovery shot no matter how difficult

Basil off the fairway is wooded madness but not a bunch of underbrush.....which to me is perfect, in that you can find your disc, don't get scratched up and ripped clothing, your round still plays fast due to no searches buuuuuuuut you are left with a very difficult shot that requires creativity to weave amongst the wooded thickness

underbrush isnt really all that great on every hole.....tree density off the fairway that allows for some kind of difficult recovery shot (still penalizes and you earn your recovery) rather than the "just pitch it back to the fairway and start over" which is to me quite boring

some of each type is probably ok but too much just groves of bushes and thorns and high weeds and grass off the fairway not nearly as great as thick clusters of trees that still allow some kind of golf shot

I dont think recovery should be as easy as a shot in the fairway either....thats too open off the fairways

why some people think a 8 foot tall thornbush thicket running along a fairway is great design is beyond me

 

[Stetz1010]

^^^ Don't think I could've said it any better Opti.

A mix of both though - some holes w/extreme undergrowth, and some holes w/o would create score seperation though...

 

[optidiscic]

The USDGC course is the best venue in the world to
challenge the world's best players. Hard, fair and every shot
matters. It is not in the woods. These top dogs have a point about
holes in the woods. Luck certainly comes into play in the woods both
good and bad. It's just how it is. You don't have to accept this but
trees in the middle of fairways is not that cool. Tons of holes in Charlotte
had tress right in the middle of the fairways.

I know, I know this pisses people off that focus on these types of holes as strengths.
Unfortunately, these types of holes will not be the ones on the main stage as this
game grows both domestically and internationally. Throwing OVER **** ain't cool either.
There is a way to make holes challenging, fair and thoughtful. John H. does this on
most of his courses so does Dave Greenwell. Fair, balanced and clean fairways are the
way it should be. Clean tunnel shots and fast greens are just a couple of ways to make
shorter holes challenging for 1000+ rated people. Not a tree that you are supposed to miss
70 feet from the basket directly in your LINE!!

Bradford was the best and most fair course MPO played in Charlotte. No trees in the
fairways, lines must be hit and had some well placed baskets. Nevin was a very lucky
and also had two holes that were tough par 3's not par 4. Especially hole 16 that is not
a par 4 sorry. Renny was second best but the tee pads are terrible and I mean they are
so bad they are dangerous to an older guy like myself.

this is the biggest pile of poo poo I have seen on this site in some time

USDG "luck factors" wind gusts, funny rolls where my disc finds oob, random oob rope, (if you can call a tree random I can call rope random)

too dismiss a woods course as luck based and not skilled base is to insult the players who shot well at World's......why didn't any 950 rated guys conquer Nevin if it's such a random luck based course.....are the top 10 scorers at Nevin a bunch of lucky turds with no skill....give me a break

Woods courses challenge your ability to hit lines, including uncomfortable lines you are not used too

Woods courses challenge your ability to make recovery shots and exhibit you're full mastery of a wide variety of throws

Woods courses challenge your ability to mentally stay focused and make sound decisions based on strategy and not emotionally blow up on a par 3 if you hit the FTA (first tree available to all you open course guys)

Woods courses are every bit the venue that a manufactured course like the USDGC is....I think theres room for a USDGC type venue but to criticize woods golf with such a blanket stroke and praise the USDGC is just misguided

oh sh1t did I just fall for a troll...if so well played lol

 

[Menacewarf]

My goal on my wooded mess of a lot I"m turning into a course is a two leval approach. Fairways removed off all trees and encumberments. An additional buffer area of about 10' on both sides with trees but no saplings to provide for that, "punishment but encouraging creativity zone". Then after that it's a free for all, second growth mess of all different age of sapplings, the crap I rip up every day. These summer rains are sweet though because I can have big Bon fires and burn green sapplings. Anyways.....

 

[optidiscic]

My goal on my wooded mess of a lot I"m turning into a course is a two leval approach. Fairways removed off all trees and encumberments. An additional buffer area of about 10' on both sides with trees but no saplings to provide for that, "punishment but encouraging creativity zone". Then after that it's a free for all, second growth mess of all different age of sapplings, the crap I rip up every day. These summer rains are sweet though because I can have big Bon fires and burn green sapplings. Anyways.....

thats the way I like design......the truly bad shots get the truly bad punishment and the slightly off shots leave some kind of chance for recovery requiring a creative shot to do so

this is how I like course design to be as well

well thought out

 

[optidiscic]

however most courses beat in this way naturally

the bad shots are rarer and the rough remains difficult

the not so bad shots happen more often and gradually the rough gets cleared

the fairways remain clearest

a long 450 foot wooded fairway will have an odd area of clearspace about 150-250 feet in where players might be hyzering in early...in time it might balloon into a landing area

this is why hardwoods are so superior to underbrush when forming fairways...the integrity of the hole can be maintained better

 

[Captain Plastic]

I guess we just disagree Opti. The better courses don't have trees
in the fairways. You can call it poo poo or whatever.

 

[optidiscic]

I guess we just disagree Opti. The better courses don't have trees
in the fairways. You can call it poo poo or whatever.

there are no trees in Nevin's fairways though

 

[The Ox]

there are no trees in Nevin's fairways though

There are plenty of trees in the fairways at Nevin - in Charlotte, NC.

Unless you are referring to another Nevin, you're wrong.

 

[optidiscic]

There are plenty of trees in the fairways at Nevin - in Charlotte, NC.

Unless you are referring to another Nevin, you're wrong.

plenty of airways that was my point

i played it 1x in jan 2011

 

[The Ox]

While Im here ...

Put to rest all the conspiracies about players being ripped off at Worlds.

I personally spent time with the TD reviewing the numbers and no one at any point was out to rip off anyone.

Everyone involved in this event spent countless hours working pro bono for the advancement of this sport. No one at the PDGA is trying to hurt you.

All the crying and bickering is infantile. Do you think Olympic Athletes complain like babies when they dont get a medal ? No, they realize they need to train harder and come back for more competition better prepared.

Send me a PM with all your hurt feelings.

 

[Stetz1010]

You know what Ox...my feelings do hurt....but only because I didn't get the chance to play in worlds this year

saving up for Lemon Lakes as we speak though! I'm about to kill it in the Recreational division!

 

[BrotherDave]

All the crying and bickering is infantile. Do you think Olympic Athletes complain like babies when they dont get a medal ? No, they realize they need to train harder and come back for more competition better prepared.

Not true, they don't complain b/c they get to go back to the Olympic Village and get all kinds of freaky naughty with the other athletes.

 

[Stetz1010]

^^^ Dibs on Alex Morgan!!!

 

[bergdawg]

While Im here ...

Put to rest all the conspiracies about players being ripped off at Worlds.

I personally spent time with the TD reviewing the numbers and no one at any point was out to rip off anyone.

Everyone involved in this event spent countless hours working pro bono for the advancement of this sport. No one at the PDGA is trying to hurt you.

All the crying and bickering is infantile. Do you think Olympic Athletes complain like babies when they dont get a medal ? No, they realize they need to train harder and come back for more competition better prepared.

Send me a PM with all your hurt feelings.

I heard a lot of players say Worlds would have been better if the courses didn't suck.

 

[Scoot_er]

this is the biggest pile of poo poo I have seen on this site in some time

USDG "luck factors" wind gusts, funny rolls where my disc finds oob, random oob rope, (if you can call a tree random I can call rope random)

too dismiss a woods course as luck based and not skilled base is to insult the players who shot well at World's......why didn't any 950 rated guys conquer Nevin if it's such a random luck based course.....are the top 10 scorers at Nevin a bunch of lucky turds with no skill....give me a break

Woods courses challenge your ability to hit lines, including uncomfortable lines you are not used too

Woods courses challenge your ability to make recovery shots and exhibit you're full mastery of a wide variety of throws

Woods courses challenge your ability to mentally stay focused and make sound decisions based on strategy and not emotionally blow up on a par 3 if you hit the FTA (first tree available to all you open course guys)

Woods courses are every bit the venue that a manufactured course like the USDGC is....I think theres room for a USDGC type venue but to criticize woods golf with such a blanket stroke and praise the USDGC is just misguided

oh sh1t did I just fall for a troll...if so well played lol

You guys are both right but both 20% wrong.

Artificial OB is not the future although courses with more of a "golf" style will start to increase. This does not mean wide open holes but ones where you must throw a controlled drive off the tee....but even throwing controlled "grandpa" shots of 300ft you can shoot a 1000 rated round.

The difference is that if you have the ability you can try and get another 150ft down the fairway to have an easier upshot while taking on more risk on the first shot.....if you try to go crazy too many times you will find NATURAL ob and eventually rack up the strokes.

Three prime examples of this I have played recently are Maple Hill, Met Center, and the course used at the last Players Cup in FL which Nikko won.

 

[Stetz1010]

Maple Hill was ehh - Pyramids and Borderlands though, now those are 2 AWESOME courses.

 

[Scoot_er]

While Im here ...

Put to rest all the conspiracies about players being ripped off at Worlds.

I personally spent time with the TD reviewing the numbers and no one at any point was out to rip off anyone.

Everyone involved in this event spent countless hours working pro bono for the advancement of this sport. No one at the PDGA is trying to hurt you.

All the crying and bickering is infantile. Do you think Olympic Athletes complain like babies when they dont get a medal ? No, they realize they need to train harder and come back for more competition better prepared.

Send me a PM with all your hurt feelings.

I don't think anyone said the TD or any of the volunteers ripped anyone off.....I believe they should be given even more support than they currently do......as in donations from out of state clubs.

 

[Scoot_er]

Maple Hill was ehh - Pyramids and Borderlands though, now those are 2 AWESOME courses.

I was going to mention Pyramids but didn't play it in the tournament, just in a casual round. Maple has a few holes I am not a fan of but the Par 4s (maybe 5s too) are quite stellar.

 

[Rip Van]

Lesser players have no real understanding of this mind set...they are playing against the course. Pros are actually playing against each other....

In a recent interview, Climo said he always tries to beat the course. Seems to work for him.