Am Worlds in Emporia will be a trophy-only tournament

[SteezeOG]

^^ Now there's an opinion that matters..

I predict it'll be less then 15 minutes before steezo comes on and tells you you're doing it wrong.


Any plans to expand more into the northeast jeremy if you're still online?

:gross: You obviously don't see the locale. Or the part where I said I'm playing in their event in a few weeks because they run tournaments like a boss and you get more in player's packs then I paid in. That's why I'm not worried about trophies or vouchers. I'm an amateur. I stink in most circles but my own but I enjoy playing to play not what I might score out of a hard working bunch of people. They don't have to put on a rec division for players like myself but thankfully they do. It's SteezeOG

 

[krupicka]

I'm not sure how many TDs would.

It's a bit of a bookkeeping hassle. I've never been asked, but I'd probaby take the position that you're getting a players pack and tournament experience for your entry fee, which is good enough value. My bias is, when I play an Am tournament and don't cash, I still feel I've received value for my money.

I offer TO at all my events. The biggest hassle is the TD report where they don't recognize that some TDs will offer TO for any division.

 

[archmage]

I'm not sure how many TDs would.

It's a bit of a bookkeeping hassle. I've never been asked, but I'd probaby take the position that you're getting a players pack and tournament experience for your entry fee, which is good enough value. My bias is, when I play an Am tournament and don't cash, I still feel I've received value for my money.

The interesting thing is, apparently it's not good enough value for those that are expecting to cash, as many people have said that they wouldn't play trophy only tournaments, and that people don't come to those tournaments. So why is it expected that just the players pack and tournament experience should be good enough value for those not expecting to cash? It feels quite the double standard.

I don't have any problems paying the TD, the club, other organizers, and the experience, but I do have a problem paying the other players.

 

[Casual Squishy]

:gross: You obviously don't see the locale. Or the part where I said I'm playing in their event in a few weeks because they run tournaments like a boss and you get more in player's packs then I paid in. That's why I'm not worried about trophies or vouchers. I'm an amateur. I stink in most circles but my own but I enjoy playing to play not what I might score out of a hard working bunch of people. They don't have to put on a rec division for players like myself but thankfully they do. It's SteezeOG

Yeah I was being a little sarcastic on that one and used your name out of laziness since I remembered some of your vehemence in your posts better then others. It was more of a comment on how some newer players would manage to find fault in anything anyone did, in spite of the fact that we're all sitting here at home and they're the ones out doing the work. Apologies for that. I just think you need to seriously readjust your opinions of am and pro in DG as they way they are in reality, as opposed to what we'd really really like them to be.

 

[Casual Squishy]

I've also been laid up for an entire week and should probably get off the internet and go stare out the window at the basket. It'd probably be less frustrating. Or jump to another thread so I stop getting snarky and repetitive.

 

[bradharris]

Or jump to another thread so I stop getting snarky and repetitive.

There are plenty of other threads filled with opportunities to be snarky and repetitive. Changing threads generally doesn't fix that problem :wall:

 

[Future_Primitive]

Apologies for that. I just think you need to seriously readjust your opinions of am and pro in DG as they way they are in reality, as opposed to what we'd really really like them to be.

Be careful with that request, the same one got me called every single name in the book, thrown into picking a side and getting blasted again for that before I even got a chance to give my actual opinion on the actual subject at hand. :wall:

 

[Casual Squishy]

There are plenty of other threads filled with opportunities to be snarky and repetitive. Changing threads generally doesn't fix that problem :wall:

roflmao. :clap:

Be careful with that request, the same one got me called every single name in the book, thrown into picking a side and getting blasted again for that before I even got a chance to give my actual opinion on the actual subject at hand.

Yeah really, that's been going on since DG started, another 20 years from now there'll be guys that are todays new players saying exactly the same thing to the next generation.

 

[Future_Primitive]

And to get this thread back on track, here is a post of mine from back in January in the "Reverse Sandbagging" thread, post #106. I think this post sums up my position on this subject matter pretty well, so please take this as my opinion on the subject matter.

I wouldn't go so far as to call you part of the problem, but I might ask you to really put some thought into what you are paying for.

Myself I see it more in line with entertainment value then I do as a R.O.I. Like going to a movie theater to watch a new movie, I pay $10-$15 for my ticket and I expect a good movie to entertain me for a couple of hours. In this case my ROI is hopefully a movie I really enjoyed. Or going to a sporting event and forking over $50 for a ticket. I am there to be part of the atmosphere, not to try and win back some of the money I spent.

So I guess I would consider the small fee of $25 to enter the tournament my cost of admission to be entertained for a day. I get to have someone else do all the work of putting it together, assembling prizes and trophies, maybe even provide a small bite to eat (optional). For that small fee I get to show up with little effort done by me to play in an event with other DG'ers. I like to think I am paying for the experience, for the chance to interact with other fellow players, maybe learn a thing or two and if the planets align in some crazy way, even win, place or show. In that case, I would be thrilled that my $25 got me a full day of fun and if lucky a shiny new trophy too.

Would me getting some small return of $10 - $15 really change the experience I just had? I guess that is up to each individual person, but for me I dont believe it would. Like getting $5.00 for placing 6th wouldn't do a whole lot for me personally. In that case I would rather just donate it back to the TD or Club who took their time to put on the event. I don't see me spending $25 as an investment as much as I do me paying to be entertained.

Just my own personal expectation. :thmbup:

 

[Casual Squishy]

I never thought I would have gotten sucked into any of this at all when I created my account so I could find out what February in Charlotte it like. I usually try to keep my opinions to myself and just play.

 

[Future_Primitive]

I never thought I would have gotten sucked into any of this at all when I created my account so I could find out what February in Charlotte it like. I usually try to keep my opinions to myself and just play.

Likewise, but sometimes just have to say something.

Ps: While looking up my old post about this subject, I noticed you had a pretty solid post shortly after my post in the Reverse Sandbagging thread.. About doing away with "Pro" and "Am" and just going Division 1, 2, 3 and 4. Good read for sure. :thmbup:

 

[DavidSauls]

The interesting thing is, apparently it's not good enough value for those that are expecting to cash, as many people have said that they wouldn't play trophy only tournaments, and that people don't come to those tournaments. So why is it expected that just the players pack and tournament experience should be good enough value for those not expecting to cash? It feels quite the double standard.

I don't have any problems paying the TD, the club, other organizers, and the experience, but I do have a problem paying the other players.

Fair point.

From my perspective---my perspective only---(1) I personally feel the event has enough value, and the winning merch is a bonus, (2) but I don't think enough others feel that way, so I'm not running a Trophy Only tournament, (3) but if someone asks for an exception to be trophy only, I'm applying my bias to avoid the hassle.

 

[Casual Squishy]

Likewise, but sometimes just have to say something.

Ps: While looking up my old post about this subject, I noticed you had a pretty solid post shortly after my post in the Reverse Sandbagging thread.. About doing away with "Pro" and "Am" and just going Division 1, 2, 3 and 4. Good read for sure. :thmbup:

Thanks. I think that is the only other thread that got me sucked into multiple posts and alot of the topic overlapped between this one and that one. I've been spending way woo much time on here when I can't be out playing. I think I read darn near every new post on most topics when I'm home alot but I stay away from posting on all the equipment/technique/player drama threads.

 

[Casual Squishy]

Thanks. I think that is the only other thread that got me sucked into multiple posts and alot of the topic overlapped between this one and that one. I've been spending way woo much time on here when I can't be out playing. I think I read darn near every new post on most topics when I'm home alot but I stay away from posting on all the equipment/technique/player drama threads.

Wow, I just went back and reread that post you mentioned and I could have just cut and pasted it here and left it at that. lol.

 

[jenb]

Jennifer mentioned that our tournaments are having a difficult time with filling up now due to this decision. Some of our Texas events were a few players short of filling last year but I disagree 100% with this statement or assumption.

...

We believe that the decline in the attendance of the events has been largely due to the number of events doubling in Texas in 2012. This gave players more options and diluted the number of players. For the 2013 season, all four of our Texas PDGA events have either filled in advance or had over 180 players and we are still doing recreational as trophy/player pack only.

...

If you can't find the competitive nature in playing your best, improving your game, and competing against the top amateurs only to be upset to not receive payout for finishing halfway down in your division, then I recommend not coming to the Amateur World Championships and letting someone else fill your spot who will enjoy the tournament and the experience. We don't feel like there will be any shortage of players wanting to compete and want all 500+ players to come and have the best tournament experience that they will ever have at a disc golf event! We look forward to seeing you in Emporia and promise to put on the best show possible!

Jeremy Rusco
Dynamic Discs

Hi Jeremy. Thanks for joining the discussion. You must know I recognize and value your professionalism, or I wouldn't have asked DD to present my tournament in July. I also recognize you may be right about the proliferation in tournaments having an impact on attendance. After all, with tournaments practically every weekend, we can't play them all. Good luck to you with this event. I hope it is as big a success as you expect.

 

[tampora]

An entry fee, which may lead to a payout, is gambling.

There is nothing wrong with a group of similarly-skilled people wanting to gamble some money between themselves on a few rounds of disc golf to the exclusion of golfers outside of their skill range.

If you and your buddies were playing poker at the bar, should you be forced to let Doyle Brunson sit down and easily take all of your money, merely on the basis that cash was involved?

 

[jenb]

An entry fee, which may lead to a payout, is gambling.

There is nothing wrong with a group of similarly-skilled people wanting to gamble some money between themselves on a few rounds of disc golf to the exclusion of golfers outside of their skill range.

If you and your buddies were playing poker at the bar, should you be forced to let Doyle Brunson sit down and easily take all of your money, merely on the basis that cash was involved?

At some point, it almost seems inevitable that a competing organization will arise that has ratings protected divisions where players compete for cash, and unrated players are not allowed to play in the ratings protected divisions.

I'm still amazed that people having no ratings are allowed to play in ratings protected divisions at PDGA tournaments. But I guess that's a topic for another thread. This thread is about the World Championships, where there is no ratings protection - just age, gender, and am status protection.

 

[DavidSauls]

At some point, it almost seems inevitable that a competing organization will arise that has ratings protected divisions where players compete for cash, and unrated players are not allowed to play in the ratings protected divisions.

Perhaps, but I don't know about "inevitable". How many non-sanctioned events, of any significant size, pay out all divisions in cash?

The merch system underwrites the finances of our tournaments. An all-cash-payout event would require an alternative source of funds for many TDs to undertake it---like 70% payout, or retaining $10 of each entry.

I have seen posted a TD who will buy back merch, at wholesale cost, which is about the same thing.

 

[bradharris]

An entry fee, which may lead to a payout, is gambling.

It's actually not. To be gambling there has to be a certain level of chance involved. In disc golf (like other sports) you have control over the outcome through your performance.

 

[bradharris]

And to your other point...

There is nothing wrong with a group of similarly-skilled people wanting to gamble some money between themselves on a few rounds of disc golf to the exclusion of golfers outside of their skill range.

If you and your buddies were playing poker at the bar, should you be forced to let Doyle Brunson sit down and easily take all of your money, merely on the basis that cash was involved?

Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with wanting to set up some wagers with your buddies. The problems arise when it becomes an organized part of the event. In this case, a world championship, which should be about way more than the potential payday, especially for players that, to avoid the contentious terms, don't consider themselves top-tier players.

If you and your buddies are playing in a World Poker Championship and Doyle Brunson signs up, get ready for an expensive lesson in how to play poker.