[Innova] OMG! OMG! Champ Leopard3s, Star Colts, and more!

[SD86]

Please stop talking about molds and slots just by looking at flight numbers.

It provides a frame of reference, and I see no problem with that.

 

[McCready]

Looking forward to all those, especially the Colt, L3 and Katana. :thmbup:

I am curious how the Star Colts will feel. I've got some Star discs that feel almost identical to GStar, and some stiff as ****.

 

[Snap-it]

I thought so too, but I've been playing solo rounds at the most popular local course and I keep running into casual dudes bagging a bunch of DX. I suppose they like it because of the price.

But they usually bag at least one high speed driver in champion.

I'm just not seeing it, other than putters. As for the price, what's better, replacing $8 discs constantly or keeping a $15 disc for years and years?

 

[SD86]

Maybe the missing 8's is why so many different 7's & 9's became popular?

If you look at the Marshall Street Flight Guide, a good (though not perfect) general reference to relative disc speeds and stability, you'll see that there are very few discs in their Speed 8 category. Some of this is their ratings: most have the MVP Amp as Speed 8, but Marshall Street put it in Speed 9... but I digress.

What many people do in putting together their bags is skip a speed number. The (Speed 7) Teebird and Eagle are huge sellers (as are those of other brands, but I'm using Innova as a reference). The Speed 9 Valkyrie was once the world record holder and is one of the most popular and best selling discs in the world. The (9) Firebird is very popular as well, as are the Roadrunner and Sidewinder.

The Roc3, Mako3 and many other mids are Speed 5, and the Speed 4s aren't that far off. The Leopard and Gazelle are Speed 6... I once bagged the Leopard, I still like it, but I found that between the Roc3, Mako3, Prodigy M4 and M5, and the TL, River and FD... the Leopard is caught up and has become redundant FOR ME. Many still carry it, of course. But I skipped a speed and carry 5, 7, 9 discs. I believe the Gazelle has also fallen out of popularity at least partially for this reason.

I think this is a natural thing that just evolved, and as a result the Speed 8 level sort of became a "no man's land". Not by intent, but just by the way things came to pass.

 

[Questatement]

Looking forward to all those, especially the Colt, L3 and Katana. :thmbup:

I am curious how the Star Colts will feel. I've got some Star discs that feel almost identical to GStar, and some stiff as ****.

Stiff and board flat will tempt me to get one. Otherwise, I'll get one in a trade with a guy I know who buys 2-3 of every new disc and ends up trading 90% of them within the first month. Crazy, I agree but at least he doesn't ink them.

 

[ranger]

I'm just not seeing it, other than putters. As for the price, what's better, replacing $8 discs constantly or keeping a $15 disc for years and years?

well, I don't think we live in the same area so who knows.

Why are you assuming the guys I'm observing are smart? I think these are just bums that like DG and buy DX for whatever reason. I definitely heard one of them complaining that his DX wraith kept flipping over.

 

[Questatement]

I think this is a natural thing that just evolved, and as a result the Speed 8 level sort of became a "no man's land". Not by intent, but just by the way things came to pass.

If all we had between speeds 2 & 12 were the even numbers, I honestly don't think the top open players would score much different. Powering down to range out to what would match a single speed lower, with a slightly less stable disc; or overpowering a slower, more stable disc to range up a speed is sort of a no brainier.

 

[SD86]

Why are you assuming the guys I'm observing are smart? I think these are just bums that like DG and buy DX for whatever reason. I definitely heard one of them complaining that his DX wraith kept flipping over.

IMHO people here on these boards and other DG boards have an awareness of plastics, molds, etc. that the casual DG player may not have. They (the casual players) go to Academy or other big box stores, see the lower price of the DX, and buy it. Over time, they may become aware that the $14 Champion disc will last at least two years of every day play while the DX disc is getting flippy after three weekend rounds, but some don't.

 

[asc349]

On a level of disc golf snobbery would a casual be ranked above or below a noob

 

[SD86]

If all we had between speeds 2 & 12 were the even numbers, I honestly don't think the top open players would score much different. Powering down to range out to what would match a single speed lower, with a slightly less stable disc; or overpowering a slower, more stable disc to range up a speed is sort of a no brainier.

You're right, the good players can power up or down, and so can us casual players (I do it with my Panther, for example).

It just evolved in the DG world where we have a relative speed scale, and it's such that in putting together a bag, players often skip numbers. They'll have odd numbers (5,7,9,11) or even numbers (4,6,8,10). And this is not an absolute, just an example. I don't carry a Leopard, but many do... and they may not have a TL in their bags, and so on and so forth...

 

[Questatement]

I'll trade you one snob for three noobs any day.

 

[asc349]

The snob was assumed to be the least desirable.

 

[SonicGuy]

If the star Colts flop like the gstars did, get a well beat, old school pro Rhyno. They fly identical to the DX proto colts and hold that spot for many, many months of heavy use and don't cost much more than new star.

You can thank me later.

I shall not thank you, I could not disagree more with this statement.

 

[SonicGuy]

On DX plastic, I think there is a bell curve of use. Very new players and very experienced players use DX, for completely different reasons. It is usually the sub 900 rated 3 year "lifestyle" disc golfer that won't touch it with a pole.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

If all we had between speeds 2 & 12 were the even numbers, I honestly don't think the top open players would score much different. Powering down to range out to what would match a single speed lower, with a slightly less stable disc; or overpowering a slower, more stable disc to range up a speed is sort of a no brainier.

Simon Lizotte is the extreme example of this. on 90% of throws he's either reaching for his p2(speed 2) or his pd2(speed 12).

 

[Ted Bratton]

It is really cool to see a flat Leo, I dig domes though so that's no biggie. It is even nicer to see a mega durable Jolly Leo that will turn over nicely when new! When I tried throwing a couple champ Leo's years ago I found them far too similar in stability and flight to my TBs at the time. A little slower yes, a bit less stable than a fresh TB yes, but effectively useful for the same shots...this Leo3 will be a better understable driver for most people and will probably feel more comfy to boot. Good disc. If you love a nice grippy DX, pro, gstar, or star leo though then this may be less interesting haha.

 

[DanJon]

In my bag I have 2 DX discs that are almost 10 years old.

I can throw both over 300'.

I also have a champ firebird which is closing in on 10 years.

Still OS.

What does this mean? I dont know.

 

[Pbmercil]

It provides a frame of reference, and I see no problem with that.

It's a really terrible frame of reference. If that is the only frame of reference you have, I guess it beats having nothing.

The 3 series has nothing to do with flight numbers or increasing the speed of anything. Its a new top on the same old rim. The 3 series is a very nifty way to market these newly topped discs. It's catchy and an easy way to build off of old favorites.

The big appeal to the roc3 was a regular production available roc in champ plastic. The appeal to the leo3 is a champ plastic Leo that will hyzer flip out of the box (basically do leopard stuff like its supposed to). The flat top is also a nice bonus.

You'll notice that the "3" discs that haven't been very sucessful all fall under the if it ain't broke don't fix it category. T3, TL3, shark3, and to a lesser extent the mako3.

 

[Snap-it]

well, I don't think we live in the same area so who knows.

Why are you assuming the guys I'm observing are smart? I think these are just bums that like DG and buy DX for whatever reason. I definitely heard one of them complaining that his DX wraith kept flipping over.

I can't imagine it's location related. Probably players pack leftovers.

It's really a matter of usability. Crappy base plastic is trashed after only a few rounds, not just stability but the plastic's a mess. Now peeps here can deny it all they want, while they buy stacks of DX whatever to "cycle" constantly. As for serious DGers using DX for anything other than putters, well, don't kid yourself. Reality is out on courses, not DGCR.

 

[Snap-it]

On DX plastic, I think there is a bell curve of use. Very new players and very experienced players use DX, for completely different reasons. It is usually the sub 900 rated 3 year "lifestyle" disc golfer that won't touch it with a pole.

...and tour pro's.