It depends. If the disc clearly comes to rest above two meters, then the penalty applies.
If the disc falls out before the group can make a reasonable determination, then benefit of the doubt goes to the thrower and the penalty does not apply.
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2 meter rule application
- Thread starter Thumber
- Start date
It depends. If the disc clearly comes to rest above two meters, then the penalty applies.
If the disc falls out before the group can make a reasonable determination, then benefit of the doubt goes to the thrower and the penalty does not apply.
Inless it fell outside of the diameter of the top, somehow into the basket it doesnt matter, you can't enter in through the basket or down from top anyway regardless of whether it came to rest. So old style disc catchers where the disc could slide in from the top. I believe that is not allowed.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,801
The scenario I'm picturing involves it balanced on the side of the top (half on/half off) and flopping off and into the basket. Completely understood that the disc can't enter through any part of what you might call the cage, including the chain support assembly. It has to co in the open top of the basket itself.
That's my issue, you shouldn't have to "poll a card" to make a ruling.
The USGA has made it a point in their rule making to try to eliminate ambiguity and subjectivity from the rules. The reason being that the sport is for the most part self officiated by the players. Outside of the highest echelons of tournament play, you do not have an official on every hole that can see events as they unfold. It's important that the rules are clear and unambiguous, so that every player that sees something, sees the same thing.
Given the fact that disc golf is similarly self officiated, I think the PDGA should strive to do the same and eliminate as much ambiguity and subjectivity as possible.
Just in this example, wouldn't it be much easier for a TD to walk up to card and say:
"Did the disc move after he reached and marked it?"
rather than
"Do you think the wind maybe caused it to move a bit, or do you think that it moved of it's own accord, how about you, what do you think?"
Just to clarify, the disc entered the basket legally. The only thing at question was whether or not "it was at rest" before falling in.
geoblime
Bogey Member
I'm playing in a c-tier tomorrow and it's my first tournament since 1999. I'll spare you the details. Back then, the 2 Meter Rule was the rule, but I see now that it's discretionary. I don't know if I'm trying to make this more difficult than it is, but if the TD does not put the 2 Meter rule in play, what's the ruling on a disc stuck in a tree 8 feet high? Mark below the disc (assuming not OB) and get your disc down, no penalty? Is it an unplayable lie? Lost disc? I don't know why I'm having trouble with this. :\
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
On any situation with a disc suspended above the playing surface, you mark directly below the disc for your next throw. If no 2m rule in place, no penalty, just play on.
Ok, thanks. That seemed to be where the rules were leading me, I just couldn't get my stupid old brain to accept it. The 2 meter thing is hard-wired in, it seems.
What happens if you can't retrieve the disc? Still no penalty?
No penalty.
Thank you both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=povjQEcuZ8E
Me a couple of years ago. (Turn your volume DOWN to watch the video)
We called it no good.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
Is it appropriate to apply the 3 minute lost disc period to attempts to retrieve the treed disc, or should the group insist the player throw within 30 seconds? (with appropriate penalties if violated)
I suspect the latter.
It's not a lost disc if you can see it but can't retrieve it. You could use the 30 seconds once it's that player's turn, groups I've been in were a little more lenient and gave the player a couple minutes when there wasn't another group right behind us.
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
I think most players will give plenty of time to get it out of the tree as long as you're not holding up another group. If you have a grump in your group who is looking for ways to stroke someone, just mark your lie and throw another disc. Then you will have more time to get your disc out of the tree because it will probably be someone else's turn and your next 30 seconds won't start until you have arrived at your next lie. If it's really stuck you may have to wait until after the round to retrieve it which happens often on courses with hungry trees.
Unless the disc is within easy reach, marking the lie and throwing should always come before retrieval, with or without a "grump" in the group. Once the throw is made, as long as you aren't distracting or delaying someone else in your group (or anyone playing on a nearby hole as well), go ahead and get the disc down.
IMO, if it can't be retrieved within a minute after the attempt is begun, the disc should be left until after the round. There's no hard and fast rule, of course, but I think if retrieving the disc takes such effort that 60 seconds isn't long enough to get it down, it's not worth putting the time and energy into it at that moment. That's regardless of how close the group behind you may be or how your group feels about hanging around and/or assisting you.
People's tendency is to be nice/lenient and let you take whatever time you feel you need, but it's still unfair to push it and linger too long in a potentially futile effort.
IMO, if it can't be retrieved within a minute after the attempt is begun, the disc should be left until after the round. There's no hard and fast rule, of course, but I think if retrieving the disc takes such effort that 60 seconds isn't long enough to get it down, it's not worth putting the time and energy into it at that moment. That's regardless of how close the group behind you may be or how your group feels about hanging around and/or assisting you.
People's tendency is to be nice/lenient and let you take whatever time you feel you need, but it's still unfair to push it and linger too long in a potentially futile effort.
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
I don't think anyone was saying to get the disc before marking the lie. You seem to be like the person I was referring to, but to each their own I guess. I'm glad I've never had the unfortunate experience of playing in your group.
I think he was referring to this:
I also read that as saying that's the alternative to getting it down and then marking your lie, and I thought JC's clarification was a good thing to keep in mind for those who aren't totally familiar with the rules. Either way, I would always rather play with someone who knows and follows the rules and insists the group does the same over someone who gets upset when you expect them to play by the rules.
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
Mash interpretted what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to pick at you, John. Just trying to make clear that retrieving the disc should be secondary to making the throw. My feeling is if everyone's on the same page with expectations, then no one has to come off as a "grump" at all.
