2014 United States Disc Golf Championship

[rocthecourse]

How far is it to the edge of the front fairway, and then from there to just over the hay bales on 17?

In other words, if you're laying up on that hole, what is required.

There's sixty feet of fairway directly in front of the tee that is in bounds. Pitching up to a spot there allows a much wider array of shot angles and a shorter throw in general.

Part of the difficulty of hole 17 is the tunnel from which you have to tee off. It forces you to throw a relatively flat shot to get out. Flat flight makes it much tougher to stop the disc on a dime on that postage stamp green. Add in that by throwing backhand, John (and Paul and Will and Pat for that matter) were turning over their shot to aim it at the fat part of the green on the right and their shots are susceptible to gliding longer than intended. Which is exactly what happened to John's first shot, leading to him overcompensating and coming up short on his second and third attempts.

Laying up takes the tunnel out of play. It's a 160-170 foot shot to the green from there (slightly longer if you're playing for the wide side on the right). Still a relatively simple shot for players of this caliber. Players of lesser skill than they are able to execute it for a 3, I've seen it done. There's no case for "you can't lay up" on that hole. You can choose not to, but the option is definitely available.

I don't know if you saw this post.

 

[Halcón]

^^ Thanks, I had missed that post.

 

[JTacoma03]

I have no data to support this but I suspect that players are less likely to call violations when they are being videoed, perhaps for fear of not getting it right or protecting how they come across on camera. Thoughts?

This is an interesting thought. I'm not sure about this either.

I do think that unless there's heated rivalries on the lead card that for the most part the guys let things slide. I'd say primarily it's fear of retaliation and secondarily it's distracting to your own individual game (trying to manage the mental battle and keep focus) to "nitpick" on small infractions that don't give any real tangible advantage. Just IMO though, no data here either.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

got it!

Fun battle going down tomorrow between Jussi and Simon on the same card. Jussi with a 1-shot lead.

I filmed this group & editing was finished last night!! Jussi is a class act out on the course & I love Simon's smooth style! K.C. & eMac don't hurt this groups appeal any!

 

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

Just as an anecdote, there was a situation years ago where two regional pros were battling it out in a tournament. One of them broke the rule that shall not be named, and the other called him out on it, resulting in a DQ, and I believe the whistleblower went on to win. Ever since that incident, there was a very divisive rift in the local dg community, a kind of "us or them" mentality. The incident happened long before I ever got into the tournament scene, but chips were still very much on shoulders. It felt a lot like high school drama, but if we're honest, that applies to a lot of dg politics.

In any case, my point is that even though the one player was totally justified in calling out a rules infraction, there were repercussions that lasted far after the round was over.

 

[Vorpaljesus]

If it's not bothering anyone on the card I don't think it's a courtesy violation

 

[threevok]

Yes, the group should decide which rules to follow.

 

[Anon]

I know its totally against our 'self policing' model that DG is built around... but for huge and high-profile NT and Major events like this, it doesn't seem crazy that they could just have a PDGA official tagging along with the top cards to make these calls.

I suppose then it becomes an issue of even coverage across the event as a whole and there probably isn't the staff required to do it. But it does seem like at a certain point they need to take these calls out of the players hands and give it to somebody with a (hopefully) objective view of the situation.

 

[Mocheez]

Just as an anecdote, there was a situation years ago where two regional pros were battling it out in a tournament. One of them broke the rule that shall not be named, and the other called him out on it, resulting in a DQ, and I believe the whistleblower went on to win. Ever since that incident, there was a very divisive rift in the local dg community, a kind of "us or them" mentality. The incident happened long before I ever got into the tournament scene, but chips were still very much on shoulders. It felt a lot like high school drama, but if we're honest, that applies to a lot of dg politics.

In any case, my point is that even though the one player was totally justified in calling out a rules infraction, there were repercussions that lasted far after the round was over.

Reminds me of the Bruce Pearl incident from when he was an assistant coach at Iowa.

 

[oddjob]

You would have to assign a marshall to every card to make it fair.

 

[holly7845]

Um...you do realize they hold a USWDGC tournament right?! That is the equivalent for the women's division.

As for women playing in the USDGC, Des and Juliana both qualified for it back in the day but I think that was a World Title exemption.

The performance flight is a joke. And the fact that the PDGA touts Holly's finish last year or the year before as the "highest finish for a woman at the USDGC" is also a joke (No disrespect meant to Holly on this). You can't lump in Performance Flight when comparing statistics unless you count it as an asterisk.

Wow. Way to knock the wind outta someone's sails.

 

[sprintermatt]

the thing about courtesy violations that makes it important calling them when they happen is, if it bothers you, it will affect your play to a degree. But you can't bitch about it affecting you when it does happen to bother you, because it is too late. There's a small group of players who know this and will do it to you on purpose. Sometimes it backfires, but a lot of the time it does get under other people's skin.

If you see a courtesy violation, call it. That player will now be on the tight rope, not you. If they do it again (unlikely they will), then they can accrue penalties. Don't wait til the end of the round to do it either, because by then, the damage is done.

 

[grodney]

As for women playing in the USDGC, Des and Juliana both qualified for it back in the day but I think that was a World Title exemption.

According to the internets, both qualified on score. Juliana was in 2001, probably at the Toronto or Rumble Town, while Des qualified at the 2003 Mad City Open.

 

[sprintermatt]

the winner of USWDGC usually got an invite too, but that was usually RIGHT before USDGC, so the spot may not have been taken all the time. Too short notice.

 

[Anon]

You would have to assign a marshall to every card to make it fair.

Which, for something like the USDGC, doesn't seem that crazy of a stretch.

Its basically going to take a call being missed that costs somebody a tournament before it changes... I'm not so sure if 'chairgate' was enough even though those strokes could have won McBeth the tournament.

 

[BrotherDave]

Plot twist:

BgWvDave is also BraveThrower43.

I know both of these fine gentlemen and assure you they are in fact, not the same person.*



*Won't rule out the possibility that BgWvDave and a dwarf/platform shoes wear an amazingly lifelike bravethrower skin suit.

 

[1978]

I also wonder about this. Flex, Zone, Pig, Harp, or similar. I think I'd practice endlessly before this tourney with a low-glide short overstable putter.

I used to throw R-Pro Hydras, Low Glide overstable putter, no skip, THAT FLOATS! in US Doubles. Birdie 3 years in a row. Then I went to overstable forehand shots.

 

[bhadella]

According to the internets, both qualified on score. Juliana was in 2001, probably at the Toronto or Rumble Town, while Des qualified at the 2003 Mad City Open.

I saw Elaine King this weekend at USDGC and she had mentioned having qualified (via prior tournament results) a few times but not being able to commit the time to play it.

 

[1978]

Plot twist:

BgWvDave is also BraveThrower43.

Back to on topic, I credit Schustericks success this year to finally getting used to those zombies who are chewing on his neck while he sleeps.

Well, I've never seen them in the same room...But I guess that isn't really that Odd. Bravethrower is so pale he is almost translucent. I might have just seen through him.

 

[1978]

Hole 17 is 254 or 249 feet from the tee to the pin. The pin placements are about 8 feet from the bales. To lay up, you throw a putter about 25 off the tee. That makes the carry over the bales from the front edge of the drop zone about 220 feet.

You have quite a bit more than 25'. I'd say that you can get yourself to under 200' away with a good lay up.