2016 Pro Worlds

[Spinthrift]

One of our club members playing the event received this email and posted it on FB:

Pro Worlds MPO competitor,

It has come to our attention that some of the MPO players may have played Hole 7 at Jones East incorrectly.

The heart of the issue lies in the fact that the green on Hole 7 at Jones East is an island green. Discs must come to rest on the island to proceed to play from the island. Some players have reported to have played from a spot on the island where their approach to the island last crossed over the island (regular OB rules). In some cases this may have been perpetuated by volunteer spotters who marked discs where they last crossed over the island.

At the end of the day, regardless of how or when a spotter marks a disc, it is the player's responsibility to know the rules and follow the rules. While the situation may not be the most ideal one, it is clear that players who did not follow the rules of the hole be penalized two strokes for the misplay.

There have already been a few competitors who have self-reported this misplay. We are hoping that everyone that misplayed the hole will do the same and let us know if this is the case. If you misplayed the hole, please email me and indicate whether the misplay was on Tuesday (Round 1) , Wednesday (Round 2), or both days. We will not adjust any of the published tee times for tomorrow (Thursday), but will adjust the score for the round(s) in which the misplay took place.

To those who have already self-reported the misplay, I appreciate your honesty and your commitment to the spirit of the game.

Doug

 

[JC17393]

Even your image shows the green as in bounds. I agree with Dana that this is similar to the situation at Trojan where tons of groups played a hole wrong and then subsequently were not penalized.

The green IS in-bounds if you come to rest on it. If you do not, it's not in-bounds. It's not a new idea in course design. Guaranteed these players are familiar with the concept and have played holes like it before (at the USDGC for one). Most players, presumably having read the caddy book, played it correctly.

Again, the situation with Paul doesn't seem to be a case of reading the caddy book and not understanding it. It seems to be that he assumed something that wasn't the case and when informed that it was an "island green" he knew immediately that he'd played it wrong.

 

[Dana]

The green IS in-bounds if you come to rest on it. If you do not, it's not in-bounds. It's not a new idea in course design. Guaranteed these players are familiar with the concept and have played holes like it before (at the USDGC for one). Most players, presumably having read the caddy book, played it correctly.

Again, the situation with Paul doesn't seem to be a case of reading the caddy book and not understanding it. It seems to be that he assumed something that wasn't the case and when informed that it was an "island green" he knew immediately that he'd played it wrong.

I would put money on it that most players that flew the island green and came to rest OB misplayed the hole. I am a person that nearly always* consults the caddy book, but I can see in this situation with the volunteer marking last spot in bounds that I may have misplayed as well.

*I misplayed a drop zone/OB scenario in 2015 and was penalized and misplayed OB at 2007 BG AM's.

 

[krupicka]

What is mildly annoying in that email is they didn't clarify what players should have used for the lie in this case. Just what not to do.

When I had a hole like this for an event I ran the rules were written:
If your throw goes OB, your next lie is limited to a) the previous lie, b) the last place inbounds for the area/island of your previous throw.

 

[ScottyLove]

Perhaps we need to new color of green. The island could be shaded differently as like Chuck stated, it doesn't become inbound (normal shade of green) until you land on it.

I think that's how I do it in my next caddy book.

 

[Steve West]

There is no "Island green" rule in any official rulebook. There is also nothing about OB being time or situation-dependent.

Nothing in the caddybook said the island was OB at any time (just that you can't play from it sometimes, which is different). So, Paul's disc was in bounds when it passed over the island. He played from where it was last in-bounds, as the sentence in the caddy book (and the regular OB rule) dictate.

Sure, there is also something about can't play from the green unless you make the green, but isn't that usually tied to the throw that has special rules (in this case the throw from the teeing area)?

If I were TD I wouldn't feel right about giving out misplay penalties on this hole.

 

[specsman]

Today's coverage starts at 12:50! It will be the tightly contested FPO division at Jones East.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6SCcilw_w

Thanks, that's just what I came to this thread to find. enjoying the coverage.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

I think I figured out why McBeast misplayed hole 7. After he checked the caddy book and read the second sentence (All subsequent throws proceed to last place in bounds) he stopped reading. The caddy book for that hole was set up illogically.

 

[ScottyLove]

I think I figured out why McBeast misplayed hole 7. After he checked the caddy book and read the second sentence (All subsequent throws proceed to last place in bounds) he stopped reading. The caddy book for that hole was set up illogically.

I think it is illogical to stop reading before you finish the section on OB. I personally think it's worded just fine.

 

[notroman]

I think it is illogical to stop reading before you finish the section on OB. I personally think it's worded just fine.

If it was worded fine then why did they have to send an email out to competitors because so many have misplayed the hole? You can't say it's because competitors don't listen or don't read since this hasn't been an issue before nor was it an issue with any other holes that had OB. It could have been worded better.

 

[chevis]

mcBeast just loves to come from behind.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

If it was worded fine then why did they have to send an email out to competitors because so many have misplayed the hole? You can't say it's because competitors don't listen or don't read since this hasn't been an issue before nor was it an issue with any other holes that had OB. It could have been worded better.

Thank you!

 

[Flick Maniac]

Who the hell would stop reading there or not play a provisional if they thought it unclear. While the wording might not be optimal, I am sure 99% of misplays were due to assumption (mother of all f ups) or remembering it wrong or whatever,and due to reading the rule (or reading it partially, which would be even more stupid)

But I guess some people cannot be torn away from their interpretation of the situation, as I am from mine.

 

[ScottyLove]

^^ This...

Could it be worded better? Sure

Is it worded good enough to make a correct judgement? Yes

Players assumed they knew what to do and let the spotter just doing his job confuse them further.

 

[SD86]

The spotter should have said. "hey, the rule states you have to throw from the DZ". From there the group makes the decision.

Not sure if spotters are supposed to do that or allowed to do that (even if they have certification as a TD).

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Who the hell would stop reading there or not play a provisional.

McBeast and a bunch of other players.

 

[netposer]

There is no "Island green" rule in any official rulebook. There is also nothing about OB being time or situation-dependent.

Nothing in the caddybook said the island was OB at any time (just that you can't play from it sometimes, which is different). So, Paul's disc was in bounds when it passed over the island. He played from where it was last in-bounds, as the sentence in the caddy book (and the regular OB rule) dictate.

Sure, there is also something about can't play from the green unless you make the green, but isn't that usually tied to the throw that has special rules (in this case the throw from the teeing area)?

If I were TD I wouldn't feel right about giving out misplay penalties on this hole.

I agree. You can't expect players to "interpret" the caddy book rules. It should be clear (which it is not). They used words like "All" and "subsequent" which can't be interpreted any other way then EVERY SHOT AFTER YOUR TEE SHOT.

 

[jvphobic]

OK... new plan for today... Straight from Terry's FB post.

ARE YOU READY FOR THIS?
In an effort to spread our disc golf coverage love as much as possible we have come up with a solution never before attempted by SmashBoxxTV.
The show will open at approximately 12:45 at Jones East when we cover the FPO Lead card featuring: Catrina Allen, Sarah J Hokom, Paige Ashton Pierce and Valarie Doss. As their round progresses we'll pick up with the men's lead card which is approximately 90 minutes later at the County Club. We hope to showcase both divisions providing our viewers with as much coverage as possible. Robert McCall will be helping along the way just as he did yesterday.
Ricky Wysocki, Paul McBeth, Nikko Locastro, and Devan Owens will battle at the County Club and we'll be there to bring it to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6SCcilw_w
Oh and this should officially be our HOTTEST round ever covered in SmashBoxxTV history. Let's go!
‪#‎StepInsideTheSmashBoxx‬

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Filming both, or women for 90 min then switching to men?

 

[jvphobic]

We will have 1 camera & Robert McCall with the women the entire time. We will take our main 2 camera crew to the Open Men. It will kinda be like what we have done at the ProTour.