2019 USDGC (Jomez lovefest optional)

[Lurp Nuts]

Parking lot holes may be unsightly, but they are 100% relatable.
We've all seen those imaginary lakes and island greens ruthlessly gobble up our discs, only to have them politely returned with just a bit of rash to prove we were there.

 

[JTacoma03]

Actually, I forgot about #13...that is a good hole...#8 would be good if it weren't playing along a baseball stadium wall...7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 are holes that keep me from wanting to return to watch USDGC again...especially after just returning from GMC and those beautiful courses and fantastic facility in Vermont...

I mean, comparing a 20-year old temporary course to a facility that was renovated and expanded as recently as last year is putting unrealistic expectations on Winthrop IMO.

Is Winthrop a picturesque course? Not really, but it's not horrible. Is the scoring separation "natural"? No, but who said it has to be? I don't understand (generally) why an artificial requirement for "natural" obstacles is applied in course comparisons, and arbitrarily so oftentimes from my POV.

I think the narrative that "real disc golf courses are a hike in the woods" is BS personally. If the challenge is valid, who cares? It certainly doesn't stop people from accepting the invitation they get every year, which to me is the real metric you have to watch.

 

[bhadella]

IMO, Winthrop way more fun to play (as a MA2 skilled player) than Fox Run.

 

[_MTL_]

I don't like a lot of ropes and artificial stuff, but actually like Winthrop Gold.

1 - Great hole. To force a player to hit that gap right out of the gate when the nerves are going is tricky.
2 - Great hole. The wall at the pin is not good, but the rest of the hole is really well designed.
3 - Fantastic par 3.
4 - Underrated hole. Tee shot has to be absolutely perfect to have a chance at a very hard second shot.
5 - Incredible hole.
6 - I think the tee needs to be moved back on a deck like 18 over the water. In the past, this was a great hole because it took so much power to get there going wide and so much control getting there down the middle. As discs have gotten so fast, it's just a cake hyzer (I throw 400 max and I can get there with a hyzer). The concept of the hole is really solid, just needs a little updating to get with the current speed of discs.
7 - I don't like the hole, but do we really want a 270 foot wide open hole in a major?
8 - Lost a little luster with trees down, but the second shot is so hard. Really good hole.
9 - Never liked 9 and it doesn't matter how the OB runs, it's just not fun to throw behind a scoreboard.
10 - I think you should mark OB to avoid the 100 foot putter shot to the drop zone for a wide open 330 foot shot, but other that that, it's a fantastic hole.
11 - Best designed hole on the course. People underestimate how hard both of those shots are.
12 - Really solid hole. Tee shot is kinda boring, but it makes people go big, which is what the hole needs.
13 - I don't like the new tee or the new rules, but there's a reason this hole is one you remember. If you took away the parking lots and thought of them as water, it would be the most photographed hole on the course.
14 - A really fun hole that takes so much precision.
15 - Worst hole on the course. IMHO, it should be a 400 foot par 3 dead straight.
16 - This hole has also lost it's bite with disc technology but it's such a skillful shot, I'm glad it's never changed.
17 - See my comments on 7...
18 - An incredible finishing hole. People underestimate how uphill it is and how much control is needed on the tee shot to not cut roll down the hill.

This is fantastic course.

 

[Three Putt]

I mean complaining about Winthrop Gold is an annual event. People want disc golf to be a big deal thing with our premier event being played on the disc golf equivalent of Augusta or Pebble Beach, but instead it's held on a temporary course that is designed in a way that could never be a permanent disc golf course. I think it's the basic idea of playing the premier event of the year on a temp course with artificial barriers that bothers people, the actual challenge of the course I don't think can be debated.

 

[madmax88]

I don't like a lot of ropes and artificial stuff, but actually like Winthrop Gold.

1 - Great hole. To force a player to hit that gap right out of the gate when the nerves are going is tricky.
2 - Great hole. The wall at the pin is not good, but the rest of the hole is really well designed.
3 - Fantastic par 3.
4 - Underrated hole. Tee shot has to be absolutely perfect to have a chance at a very hard second shot.
5 - Incredible hole.
6 - I think the tee needs to be moved back on a deck like 18 over the water. In the past, this was a great hole because it took so much power to get there going wide and so much control getting there down the middle. As discs have gotten so fast, it's just a cake hyzer (I throw 400 max and I can get there with a hyzer). The concept of the hole is really solid, just needs a little updating to get with the current speed of discs.
7 - I don't like the hole, but do we really want a 270 foot wide open hole in a major?
8 - Lost a little luster with trees down, but the second shot is so hard. Really good hole.
9 - Never liked 9 and it doesn't matter how the OB runs, it's just not fun to throw behind a scoreboard.
10 - I think you should mark OB to avoid the 100 foot putter shot to the drop zone for a wide open 330 foot shot, but other that that, it's a fantastic hole.
11 - Best designed hole on the course. People underestimate how hard both of those shots are.
12 - Really solid hole. Tee shot is kinda boring, but it makes people go big, which is what the hole needs.
13 - I don't like the new tee or the new rules, but there's a reason this hole is one you remember. If you took away the parking lots and thought of them as water, it would be the most photographed hole on the course.
14 - A really fun hole that takes so much precision.
15 - Worst hole on the course. IMHO, it should be a 400 foot par 3 dead straight.
16 - This hole has also lost it's bite with disc technology but it's such a skillful shot, I'm glad it's never changed.
17 - See my comments on 7...
18 - An incredible finishing hole. People underestimate how uphill it is and how much control is needed on the tee shot to not cut roll down the hill.

This is fantastic course.

I like this mostly. I don't think comparing 17 to 7 is fair. I love watching hole 17. You can see what this hole does mentally to our top competitors.

 

[Casey 1988]

I mean complaining about Winthrop Gold is an annual event. People want disc golf to be a big deal thing with our premier event being played on the disc golf equivalent of Augusta or Pebble Beach, but instead it's held on a temporary course that is designed in a way that could never be a permanent disc golf course. I think it's the basic idea of playing the premier event of the year on a temp course with artificial barriers that bothers people, the actual challenge of the course I don't think can be debated.

Also the Great Lakes open Course used for the Biggest $$ cash payout in disc golf for the Great Lakes Open in Peoria is also a temp course with a bunch of artificial out of bounds and one artificial barrier. the toughness of the course can not be overstated but the plot of land some holes will not make for a permanent course in that area. I hope they use the other course used for worlds as the second day of tournament before getting back to the main course.

 

[JC17393]

Also the Great Lakes open Course used for the Biggest $$ cash payout in disc golf for the Great Lakes Open in Peoria is also a temp course with a bunch of artificial out of bounds and one artificial barrier. the toughness of the course can not be overstated but the plot of land some holes will not make for a permanent course in that area. I hope they use the other course used for worlds as the second day of tournament before getting back to the main course.

You mean the LEDGESTONE OPEN.

Great Lakes Open is in Michigan and played on the Tobaggan (home of the USADGC and used for Worlds in 2000). Totally different style of course compared to Eureka Lake (or Winthrop Gold).

 

[brutalbrutus]

That has to be one of the mod's alt accounts. There is no other reason why he's still allowed to post his obvious bull****

 

[fish58320]

It certainly doesn't stop people from accepting the invitation they get every year, which to me is the real metric you have to watch.

'Sup.

 

[Streets]

You mean the LEDGESTONE OPEN.

Great Lakes Open is in Michigan and played on the Tobaggan (home of the USADGC and used for Worlds in 2000). Totally different style of course compared to Eureka Lake (or Winthrop Gold).

There's no point. Casey will continue to post misinformation over and over again. Nobody does anything. I usually don't advocate putting someone on ignore but good grief, it's basically spam at this point.

 

[toddnick]

Well, I'm glad that I invited several comments...

And call me wrong for saying it...

But when I spend my money to spectate a tournament, I want a gorgeous (or mainly asthetically pleasing course (not just a spectator friendly or course that just tests skills)...that is my preference...

Vermont has this...Pittsburgh has this...and other places have this...but not USDGC...

Tradition is great and I understand the appeal...but I believe that USDGC isnt really worthy of a major (despite the great tounament logistics and crowd)...i believe that Smuggs would be a better site for a major than USDGC...and I've been to both...forgetting history, does anyone disagree that it is an equal or better test with a much more appealing set of courses?

 

[toddnick]

The Masters in ball golf is worthy of being the annual major set in one place...it is gorgeous and memorable...

I think the major set in the same place annually should be the same in disc golf...and for a non-player (other then being a bad rec player) who loves the game...I don't see USDGC as being the right choice...though flying in to spectate all 4 rounds last year was fun...

 

[Plastic Thunder]

Innova has made a number stupid moves this past year. They let the best player in the world get away and he schooled all the new talent they signed this year on what a winner should perform like.

Innova apparently likes using all the second best talent...................

Jomez is good but I'm willing to bet Innova had a good reason to go a different direction.

People defending Jomez like they are the only good production company have blinders on, to put it mildly. The field is catching up quickly (or already doing as well or better, thanks CCDG)

 

[discerdoo]

Innova has made a number stupid moves this past year. They let the best player in the world get away and he schooled all the new talent they signed this year on what a winner should perform like.

Innova apparently likes using all the second best talent...................

Innova likes selling discs. They've done pretty well at it and will likely continue to do so.

 

[DavidSauls]

I find the Winthrop Gold course to be plenty scenic. Most of it, anyway. Somewhere on the scale between a park course and a golf course, with groomed and undulating grassy fairways, landscaping, the lake, and the clubhouse building. It's not a natural setting, but it's pretty nice.

If someone wants an annual showplace event on a gorgeous natural course......let them build it. The USDGC is where it is because Innova put phenomenal resources and efforts, and a good bit of vision, into making it so. The ingredients for a top-level event are more than just the course.

 

[jdm0514]

Innova likes selling discs. They've done pretty well at it and will likely continue to do so.

To add to this. Innova's biggest spokesperson are the discs themselves. How many times have a competitors disc have been described as aviar like, roc like, teebird like or destroyer like? Numerous times. Players come and go but molds stick around.

 

[Streets]

When I spectate a disc golf tournament...I'm usually there to watch good disc golf, not pretty scenery. If I want scenery, I will go on a hike or something.

 

[DavidSauls]

Judging from crowd sizes, there are more yous than scenery-watchers. USDCG draws bigger crowds than any other disc golf event. For a variety of factors---but not the cast, since the same star-studded line-up is at a dozen other events, including ones in even more scenic settings.

 

[DiscJunkie]

I've been going to USDGC for 10+ years.
Like Streets and DavidSauls, I go to watch disc golf, not the scenery.
In that regard, Winthrop Gold has actually served very well.
Most throws can be seen from beginning to end and hyzers are not always allowed.
Most holes are designed for score separation and strategy is required.
Always a good show, from my perspective.

Personally, I have no complaints.