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Basket or Tone pole

My dialog is more about the failings of a consistent holing out device versus specifically having a love for tone poles. A bigger hole in the ground like golf also has its merits as a uniform target. Harold dislikes the lack of touch required (like a golf hole) the more we close the gaps in the chain pattern. We'll always have a fair amount of luck elements and interesting variety in course designs played at the highest level. It would be nice if we could at least pin down a more radially consistent target whatever that may be.
 
that's understandable. i personally don't find any glaring faults with standardized pole holes that we use in play around the world today and i don't like the idea of them being made to catch everything. over the years, the number of putts i've thrown that i knew were good yet bounced out is perhaps identical to the number of putts i've thrown that i knew were no good yet stayed in.

if anything i'd like to see the basket piece remain the same size and have the outer chain assembly reduced by a small amount giving less total area to hit. since it's not practical to have mass produced baskets shipped here i must use the technical specs of those baskets and ask under qualified welders/steel workers here to fabricate them and that always leaves a bit more error but honestly i wouldn't even consider tone poles if they were a fourth of the price and delivered for free. no golf hole is complete until you pull the disc out of the basket.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that tone poles vary a LOT. As they tend to be home made, there are no standards. I've seen everything from 2 1/2" X 12" pipe slung over a 1 3/4" pole, to cut open propane canisters. Some work fine, some... others, not so much. Having played courses where 1/3 of the 'baskets' were only 2" pipe sticking 3 1/2' out of the ground with no tone apparatus... makes any put over 10' into a bitch.
I prefer baskets and am completely cool with their supposed flaws. Even a good object course can be fun, but there's nothing like a disc in a basket to tell if it was good or not.

As has been said, it isn't good until it's in the basket. To all those who cry about spit outs... Hitting the chains is NOT the goal... It's like saying hitting the backboard should be good enough in b-ball. It's living chaos theory!
 
Successful Target Area

I didn't make it past page 8 yet and wanted to post this before I forgot. I was thinking which is easier to "hole out" on, tone poles or baskets. Here are some thoughts.

The tone pole diagram in post #14 shows a 10" wide target. My Aviar P & A is 8 1/4" across, but let's call it 8" to keep it simple. I'm assuming that the tone pole is of the high quality, very sensitive, type that has been mentioned in the thread. So even the slightest grazing of my putter on the pole will allow me to hole out.

That actually makes the target zone approximately 26" wide. That is the 10" wide target, plus the 8" width of my putter added to both the left and right sides of the tone pole. I am taking people at their word that even minimal hits on these quality tone poles are audible. So any throw within a 26" wide area centered around the pole will count as "holed out" because the disc will have touched the target.

The PDGA allowable standard for a basket deflector (chain) support, converted to inches, is between about 21" and 24" in width. http://www.pdga.com/files/PDGATechStandards_10-17-13_0.pdf Here's where it gets interesting (to me, anyway). Let's assume we're talking about me, a RHBH putter, who doesn't putt hard, putts flat, and is putting on any approved basket.

How much of my putter must contact chains in order to get a consistently successful putt? Starting with right side putts, for arguments sake, let's say 3" of my disc must hit chains. That's a bit less than half of the width of the disc, but the clockwise spin will help "pull" the disc into the basket. Now, how much disc must hit the chains on the left side? Because the clockwise spin is working to "spit out" my putt, I'd say 5" of disc must contact the chains for a consistently successful putt. Putts outside of these zones will be considered missed putts.

So how big is the "success zone" on a basket? Let's use the maximum deflector width of 24". We need to subtract 3" from the effective width of the basket on the right side for discs that will miss right if they don't catch 3" worth of chains. And we need to subtract 5" from the left side for the same reason. So 24" minus 8" means that we have an effective target width of only 16".

I am, of course, making a lot of assumptions here. I'm assuming that the target area height is the same. I'm using the deflector width as the chain width, and the chains actually get more narrow as they collect at the bottom. I'm not counting the occasional dead center spit out or the hard putter spit out. I'm not counting nub misses or top chain link misses. And I just estimated the "spit out" area based upon my personal experience.

So, based upon these standards for tone poles and baskets, and my "less than scientific" methods, it seems as though the tone pole actually has a much larger "success" zone than an average basket. I'm not here to pass judgment on either target, I just found this interesting. Thoughts?

I've never played a tone course, but I have played a lot of target golf. I really enjoy the sound of the chains and the satisfaction of a disc sitting in the tray (or chains). I do believe, though, that I would enjoy playing on tone courses, too.
 
What is it called on the PDGA Approved target list? http://www.pdga.com/files/PDGA_approved_targets_110513.pdf

This http://www.pdga.com/files/PDGATechStandards_10-17-13_0.pdf also says that for Championship and Standard baskets, the "B." Deflection Assembly must have 360 degree access. So I don't see how the "two sided" basket could be approved. Not sure if this was addressed after your post, but I was already on the PDGA basket standards page anyway and felt like posting about it again. :p
 

Fly 18 Designer Pro baskets didn't limit access to one side or the other. They had chains all of the way round them. They did not have the "arch" configuration that is shown on the white basket in this thread. The actual "basket/tray" portion of the baskets was similar, though.

picture.php


http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=278#
 
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I didn't make it past page 8 yet and wanted to post this before I forgot. I was thinking which is easier to "hole out" on, tone poles or baskets. Here are some thoughts.

The tone pole diagram in post #14 shows a 10" wide target. My Aviar P & A is 8 1/4" across, but let's call it 8" to keep it simple. I'm assuming that the tone pole is of the high quality, very sensitive, type that has been mentioned in the thread. So even the slightest grazing of my putter on the pole will allow me to hole out.

That actually makes the target zone approximately 26" wide. That is the 10" wide target, plus the 8" width of my putter added to both the left and right sides of the tone pole. I am taking people at their word that even minimal hits on these quality tone poles are audible. So any throw within a 26" wide area centered around the pole will count as "holed out" because the disc will have touched the target.

The PDGA allowable standard for a basket deflector (chain) support, converted to inches, is between about 21" and 24" in width. http://www.pdga.com/files/PDGATechStandards_10-17-13_0.pdf Here's where it gets interesting (to me, anyway). Let's assume we're talking about me, a RHBH putter, who doesn't putt hard, putts flat, and is putting on any approved basket.

How much of my putter must contact chains in order to get a consistently successful putt? Starting with right side putts, for arguments sake, let's say 3" of my disc must hit chains. That's a bit less than half of the width of the disc, but the clockwise spin will help "pull" the disc into the basket. Now, how much disc must hit the chains on the left side? Because the clockwise spin is working to "spit out" my putt, I'd say 5" of disc must contact the chains for a consistently successful putt. Putts outside of these zones will be considered missed putts.

So how big is the "success zone" on a basket? Let's use the maximum deflector width of 24". We need to subtract 3" from the effective width of the basket on the right side for discs that will miss right if they don't catch 3" worth of chains. And we need to subtract 5" from the left side for the same reason. So 24" minus 8" means that we have an effective target width of only 16".

I am, of course, making a lot of assumptions here. I'm assuming that the target area height is the same. I'm using the deflector width as the chain width, and the chains actually get more narrow as they collect at the bottom. I'm not counting the occasional dead center spit out or the hard putter spit out. I'm not counting nub misses or top chain link misses. And I just estimated the "spit out" area based upon my personal experience.

So, based upon these standards for tone poles and baskets, and my "less than scientific" methods, it seems as though the tone pole actually has a much larger "success" zone than an average basket. I'm not here to pass judgment on either target, I just found this interesting. Thoughts?

I've never played a tone course, but I have played a lot of target golf. I really enjoy the sound of the chains and the satisfaction of a disc sitting in the tray (or chains). I do believe, though, that I would enjoy playing on tone courses, too.

my experience tells me that in order to get a hole in one on a standardized pole hole, you must hit an area of the target that is perhaps slightly smaller than an ipad screen. using a tone pole target the sweet spot is significantly larger.

tone poles vs pole holes is an apples vs oranges debate that mostly only gets traction during very cold northern winters when players are less likely to be outside and need something disc golf related to talk about.
 
Stick a home in the ground and get it over with. The basket has chains extending all the way into the ground. Would be fun to try
 
tone poles vs pole holes is an apples vs oranges debate that mostly only gets traction during very cold northern winters when players are less likely to be outside and need something disc golf related to talk about.

:clap: Exactly why I had the time to do "all of my research" and write my novella. LOL!
 
9e9d553d.jpg


this was my tone setup. bigger target area than i wanted but being a painter it was easy to come across the pails. screwed the top, zip tied the bail. we drilled into the bottom of the limb and hammered rebar about 4" up the hole, leaving 6" exposed so it just became a spike at the bottom. easily moved, no impact, yet stood in place solid.
 
I didn't make it past page 8 yet and wanted to post this before I forgot. I was thinking which is easier to "hole out" on, tone poles or baskets. Here are some thoughts.....

I actually computed the effective success zone for baskets based on data from an ace race. It works out to be the equivalent of hitting an area 13.25 inches tall by 9.5 inches wide with the nose of the disc.

Tone poles are 4 inches more forgiving on each side (they count it if the edge of the disc hits, not just the center). So a 1.5 inch wide tone pole should be 13.25 inches tall to be as difficult as a basket.

My 5-gallon bucket is 10 inches wide at the bottom, and 11 inches wide at the top, so to be equal to a basket, I should use only the bottom 7 inches of it.
 
JAKE master, those look pretty awesome to me, something maybe half the radius of a 5gal would work perfectly. Height wise it looks spot on.
 
Has anybody played these tonal targets with chains? I saw these in Wisconsin when visiting my daughter at Madison. They were south of Madison at Hidden Valley RV park. Made the target a little easier to hit and had a combination chain chime and drum tone sound.
 

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^^^My only ace in the past three years was on one of those! (And, unfortunately I really kind of, can't count it!) (Especially since the tees were marked so poorly that it was really a safari round!)
 
Has anybody played these tonal targets with chains? I saw these in Wisconsin when visiting my daughter at Madison. They were south of Madison at Hidden Valley RV park. Made the target a little easier to hit and had a combination chain chime and drum tone sound.
There was a company maybe out of Texas that actually produced a commercial product called the Tone Pole in the early 90s. I played them on the Yadkinville course in NC. They did have chains a little tighter to the pole and more nicely secured than the ones in the picture above. I tried googling the company but mainly got leads to pole dancing lessons. I'm thinking they went out of business in the 90s before they would have had a website.
 

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