Bradley Williams Suspended

[pappabearlee]

So is the innova pro shop going to be putting out a new mcbeth retirement stamp?
Im guessing they will drop it late tonight.

 

[BionicRib]

I'm confused....he's boycotting some events, but not others?

What kind of protest is that?

 

[runningDoc]

That seems like a gross oversimplification based on what has been reported by three different people (Dollar, Williams, and the eyewitness). By all three accounts, there was...
1) a shoulder bump
2) a player causing a distraction by advancing ahead of the throwing player
3) a player being belligerent and argumentative through the whole thing

Also, the only one saying that Dollar withdrew his complaint is Williams. There are enough details absent from his accounting to make me doubt its veracity relative to the other two. Not saying he's lying, but he strikes me as the type that does things (like argue and cuss) without even realizing or remembering he did it. His recollection simply may not be reliable.

A condition of probation is not offending again during that period, no matter what the offense. A complaint was filed and the accusations in that complaint were found to be true. That alone should trigger the change of probation to suspension even without further "sentencing" for the new offense. So given the timing of the incident, that's pretty much a guaranteed year off. The extra six months is the new sentence, which is a reasonable escalation compared to the last offense (3 months).

even Matt Dollar thinks the suspension is harsh:

" The last 2 days I have received so many messages and been tagged in lots of posts. This is the ONLY time I'm going to talk about it.
Bradley Williams and I were on the 3rd card together during the final round of Ledgestone. We had no real interactions until hole 13. Brad teed off 3rd and I was 4th. After throwing a couple drives OB, he landed his 3rd try in bounds. He walked away from the tee as I walked towards it. About 10ft from the tee we were going to pass each other, and as we did he stepped into me with his shoulder. I immediately questioned him about it. We argued shortly and then I got on the tee to throw.
Before I threw my tee shot, Brad appeared to start walking up the fairway. He was 25-30ft to the right of the tee, and probably got 15ft in front of it before I stopped him. I asked him to get behind the tee. He didn't and we argued. I asked again, and when he didn't move, another player on the card gave Brad a courtesy violation, which I seconded. Brad moved back towards the group a little bit, and I went ahead and threw. On the way up the fairway we argued, but by the time we reached the green it was over.
Since then, Brad and I have talked about the situation several times. He apologized for his actions and I accepted his apology. We are not holding any grudges between us.
As for his 18 month suspension...it's a really steep penalty. I have no say in it and my opinion doesn't matter, but everyone keeps asking me anyway. I'm a forgive and forget kind of guy. I'm never mad for long. I have to assume that his massive penalty is because he was suspended 6 months last year and still on probation when this incident occurred.
I love disc golf and my disc golf family. I want only good things to happen to all of you. I hate drama! Go throw, be happy, and treat people with kindness!"

 

[Noill]

How about no suspension and instead he has to wear something stupid when he competes, like a Cat in the Hat hat. Who can get mad whilst wearing a Cat in the Hat hat?

*re-ups PDGA membership just to elect BroD to PDGA board*

 

[runningDoc]

*re-ups PDGA membership just to elect BroD to PDGA board*

or wear this as a warning to fellow card mates:

 

[lyleoross]

Not by the book, as noted above. The notion that the PDGA's hands were tied, and they had no choice but to hand down an 18 month suspension is just silly.

What do you mean by "his notion that there is no information?" I don't see the word information noted anywhere in his comment. He does condemn the PDGA for not providing an explanation of their reasoning, which they clearly have not. We wouldn't have any idea as to even what the suspension was for if not for Dollar and Williams explaining it themselves. If you are saying the PDGA did release an explanation, let's see it.

Regarding there being public knowledge as to what happened, of course there is plenty at this point. Dollar himself explained the ordeal in detail, said it was no big deal at all, and that he was over it by the time they reached the green on the same hole. How soft are you people that you find what happened to be so egregious? We see this level of disrespect from Nikko is just about every event he enters.

The PDGA has defined rules for rules infraction punishments. Breaking them will leave them open to law suits. The PDGA publishes the rules, violations, and equivalent punishments. The PDGA doesn't give specifics, to protect BW, who can come here and tell you all about it. Bradley, are you there? Whoops, apparently he doesn't want to share.

Nikko should be sanctioned, but he punishes himself, not his card mates. He swears at himself smacks himself etc. But he doesn't get in his card mates face, after bumping them, and cuss them out. Soft as I am, the two appear different to me. But then again, I do have a soft head....

 

[Noill]

I'm confused....he's boycotting some events, but not others?

What kind of protest is that?

Just enough of one to get the attention of the PDGA while not killing him totally financially...

or wear this as a warning to fellow card mates:

Yes!

 

[Noill]

The PDGA has defined rules for rules infraction punishments. Breaking them will leave them open to law suits. The PDGA publishes the rules, violations, and equivalent punishments. The PDGA doesn't give specifics, to protect BW, who can come here and tell you all about it. Bradley, are you there? Whoops, apparently he doesn't want to share.

Nikko should be sanctioned, but he punishes himself, not his card mates. He swears at himself smacks himself etc. But he doesn't get in his card mates face, after bumping them, and cuss them out. Soft as I am, the two appear different to me. But then again, I do have a soft head....

Don't boards like this have discretion? There are rules and all that, but discretion can be applied when real humans decide they can... when all that fails, letter of the law applies...

I'm just saying being a compassionate human is paramount above all bureaucracies.

Which is not to say I disagree with you really... you are technically correct... "technically" is not what I was endorsing.
Lastly, no matter what anyone does, someone will disagree with it and all that... so, always lead with your own best thoughts on it... never succumb to that one guy or group that gets all flustered over stuff...

 

[onemilemore]

I think the issue that a lot of people, McBeth included, are having is that there has been literally no statement at all from the PDGA. I understand they respect player privacy, but an issued statement saying that Bradley Williams was suspended due to an incident at Ledgestone and an investigation found that he made physical contact with a player would take very little time and does not compromise any other players' privacy. Instead, the whole thing plays out on social media and the PDGA has not issued a single statement.

I don't think McBeth or anyone is looking for a fully detailed explanation. I think they just want any explanation at all.

 

[lyleoross]

Don't boards like this have discretion? There are rules and all that, but discretion can be applied when real humans decide they can... when all that fails, letter of the law applies...

I'm just saying being a compassionate human is paramount above all bureaucracies.

Which is not to say I disagree with you really... you are technically correct... "technically" is not what I was endorsing.
Lastly, no matter what anyone does, someone will disagree with it and all that... so, always lead with your own best thoughts on it... never succumb to that one guy or group that gets all flustered over stuff...

To some extent, and there is an appeals process. But the last time they made an exception, a pro threatened to sue. Darned if they do, darned if they don't.

I don't see why this is so hard? The PDGA did exactly what is being asked. They cut the guy slack and instead of suspending him long term, they put him on probation. Nice of them, does everything everyone, including Paul, wants. Then he blew it. That be stupid. I'm willing to accept the guy has medical issues, but that means finding a permanent solution.

I believe in compassion, which is why when the crucify BW thread got rolling I did all I could to point out it was inappropriate.

Now, I agree, I think this infraction could be handled differently, but I think it's time to wait for the PDGA to look at the appeal before we get out the tar and feathers. I remind everyone, as Steve Dodge wrote, this is only the second touring pro infraction of this sort the PDGA has had. Instead of tying the noose, a little bit of advocacy and adult suggestions might go a long way. That is the Steve method and one I support.

 

[lyleoross]

I think the issue that a lot of people, McBeth included, are having is that there has been literally no statement at all from the PDGA. I understand they respect player privacy, but an issued statement saying that Bradley Williams was suspended due to an incident at Ledgestone and an investigation found that he made physical contact with a player would take very little time and does not compromise any other players' privacy. Instead, the whole thing plays out on social media and the PDGA has not issued a single statement.

I don't think McBeth or anyone is looking for a fully detailed explanation. I think they just want any explanation at all.

I agree. I think there is a published list with detail somewhere but this is simply high profile it needs what your suggesting. As I wrote earlier, they are still young at this.

 

[Noill]

I agree with the last two three posts whole heartedly.

 

[Hampstead]

Let's all take a moment and redirect any outrage that we may have in MTL's general direction.

He'll really appreciate that.

 

[Noill]

I believe in compassion, which is why when the crucify BW thread got rolling I did all I could to point out it was inappropriate.

I like this a lot. I will add that we have a lot of personality types on this site. I won't begrudge them their feelings on any matter nor chide them for it... it's part of the process of discussion. I also commend you for stating your feelings on the matter and directing that, as you saw fit, toward those who were less than diplomatic. Again, it is just a part of the process and is something that can be appreciated from a 1,000 foot perspective.

edit: maybe I do chide once in a while ... "chide" is a good word :thmbup:

 

[turbine712]

On Facebook, Cam Todd just sided with McBeth. Cam said he will explain his position soon

 

[Lazerface]

Lord Jesus. People on this thread backing the punishment are intentionally over complicating the issue and making emotional judgments, which is exactly what the PDGA did.

This is not about Brads history of being a dick/douche/refusing high fives. The vast majority of disc golfers Ive met are good people. Brad sticks out in this culture like a thorn in a pile of tulips (genius anology) and Im not saying peoples feelings themselves are not justified, but they have 0 to do with the punishment.

When it comes to the board making a decesion on the suspension there was two instances 1) kicking over a basket leading to a probation, and 2) getting in a MINOR altercation with a card mate during the probabtion.

18 months of no play is a joke and if you dont see that you are being emotional because you can't stand this guy. Were both these instances dick moves?, sure, but this is about the governing body of a sport disciplining an athlete of their sport for the ACTUAL INFRACTIONS on record, not his overall dickness.

If you want to see more BW just look around at any other major sport where athletes are paid a **** ton and grow massive egos/entitlement from all the attention and ass kissing that goes on. The only point Im making here is its about the infraction not the personality of the offender - hints the comparisons refrenced by many in this thread.

I read a lot of "why are u defending this *******" but I dont believe that is the case here. Like most non dicks (which Im assuming most of these disc golf forum posters are) they would probably not appreciate or defend dick behavior. The disagreement is with the level of punishment, because as they say it does not fit the crime here.

Lets pretend for a sec your a new player to the sport and dont have all the tribal knowledge most of us do on the top players, their personalities, and what not. You start to hear some buzz about this incident and you ask a friend. "Who is this Brad guy and why did he get suspended for 18 months.".... "Last year he kicked over a basket during play and got put on probabtion, and this year he got in a verbal altercation that included a shoulder bump that may or may not have been intentional"....."sooooooo did he attack the guy or what"....no they actually reconcilled before the round was over"......"Oh, damn that seems kind of ridiculous"......"Yes, most reasonable people agree".

If Judges based sentancing on how much of a **** bag each criminal was we would have no room in our jails. Lets face it, they are already overcrowded with disc golfers with misdemeanor possession convictions........ and that one murderer.

 

[onemilemore]

Big deal? I doubt it.

As for any major tournament, the timing would keep him out of the Memorial.

I agree. I think there is a published list with detail somewhere but this is simply high profile it needs what your suggesting. As I wrote earlier, they are still young at this.

The only published list is on the PDGA website, and it lists the date and a suspension. That is all. No reason, no infraction.

 

[armiller]

Paul would be a logical starting place for a players' association, and I think that's the real solution to the issues here (both player conduct and PDGA discipline). Maybe he should use this opportunity to get something going.

 

[seanbarg]

And the whole day I was wondering why Paul was playing so oddly in Nantucket... Now I see the power play to be made which was likely brewing all day within him. I support BW in an appropriate appeals process with a more reasonable sentence and any sort of statement from the PDGA - which I think we will get that at this point. Mcbeth probably could have taken a better route in his protest and statement.. but nonetheless a PDGA boycott by him will hold more merit in the issue than any other player hands down.

 

[sidewinder22]

#McDGA