DFP Thumb Grip

[rjaco]

I gave this grip a try today. It was really inconsistent for me, probably do to the timing of the wrist roll and my bad form. I threw a bunch of high hyzers and only a few low to normal height. Starting out everything was nose up but seemed to get better the more I threw. Every once in a while I got it pretty close to right and had a really nice flight. It was a little windy, so hard to tell about distance. It does feel like there is potential, so Ill give it a try next time.

 

[RFrance]

I tried this out on the course today after practicing yesterday. I had the same issues with nose up and a little bit with hyzering. I think the thumb placement will control the hyzering (I believe I read this in a DGCR thread or a video). I went back through Blake's Myth of the Disc Pivot and will work on the bottle drill and rotating the forearm and rewatch SW22's video on the same to keep the nose down. There is no doubt I was getting more distance. For me the less grip pressure means a lot less tension in the arm so the lever moves smoother and can accelerate faster.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I tried this again on my way home from work. It was late so I only got twelve throws in but when I got it right...WOW! I did have some high hyzers but the good ones went far with little effort. I do feel like I will be able to bring more arm speed in with this grip. I always had to balance arm speed with my grip pressure using my old grip. If I threw too hard I would get a slip. This grip feels like there is no limit to arm speed while still avoiding slips. More work to do. Thanks HUB, thanks Clard!

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Glad to help nathan!

the more I thought about this, the more questions I came up with.

Hypothesis:
1. Moving the thumb deeper into the flight plate decreases the spin on the disc.
2. Changing the grip to a more positive clamp, you avoid slips - getting a faster ejection speed.
3. Rolling the wrist under adds hyzer.

So you end up throwing a disc FASTER with LESS SPIN and more hyzer angle. Decreasing the spin would lead to the disc turn more, but the added hyzer neutralizes that.

I was throwing this way into a headwind yesterday - and my putters were flipping like crazy. Thrown "traditional grip" my discs would flip in the wind, but nowhere as severely. That got me thinking that my discs, while coming out faster and with more hyzer, were more likely to be spinning slower and acting less stable.

Jared Roan pointed out to me that the DFP thumb would decrease spin... up to that point, it hadn't really crossed my mind.

CLard also noticed that DFP was making his putters flippier in the wind, BUT he sees an overall trend of ADDING stability to his disc.

I would LOVE to get my hands on one of these sensor discs that are in the works with gyro-meters and veloci-meters and be able to see what's really happening beyond "X and Y happened, so maybe it's because of A and B".

 

[ballfish]

I tried rolling the wrist on the course yesterday. I have never thrown that far before. Feels like my wrist snaps forward a lot faster than before. Don't really know why. My thumb position was the same as always, pretty much stolen from Simon/Eagle. So I guess it's close to DFP grip. Didn't feel like the disc was more nose down but the ejection speed was really fast, at least for me.

 

[runningDoc]

I think the deeper thumb acts like a clutch in a manual transmission.

the deeper thumb slides into the pinch point with the index finger (hook/joint) with the pull through/hit engaging the "higher gear" like when you engage the clutch going from 3rd to 4th gear in a car/motorcycle

 

[rjaco]

Worked on this a little more tonight. My best throws are with flippy prime truths. I'm getting a real nice hyzer flip with a fade finish. I'm not getting any turn like HUB. I think I may be rotating my wrist too soon, causing the disc to come out at an angle. Disc does seem to be coming out real fast. Definitely going to keep working on it.

 

[RFrance]

I practiced the water bottle drill first a few times today to get the feel. It helped me to slow down. Trying to concentrate on timing the thumb push, I had success but it wasn't consistent. When I switched to concentrating on rotating the forearm instead, I was able to get nice low and straight shots. Both basically have the same effect with a thumb push but the timing was easier for me with rotating the forearm. Also, slowing down with a light grip I had some throws of about 315' - 325' which is good for me. Throwing my Terns flat into the wind they turned and burned but with a hyzer flip they went straight and far.

 

[sidewinder22]

the more I thought about this, the more questions I came up with.

Hypothesis:
1. Moving the thumb deeper into the flight plate decreases the spin on the disc.
2. Changing the grip to a more positive clamp, you avoid slips - getting a faster ejection speed.
3. Rolling the wrist under adds hyzer.

So you end up throwing a disc FASTER with LESS SPIN and more hyzer angle. Decreasing the spin would lead to the disc turn more, but the added hyzer neutralizes that.

I was throwing this way into a headwind yesterday - and my putters were flipping like crazy. Thrown "traditional grip" my discs would flip in the wind, but nowhere as severely. That got me thinking that my discs, while coming out faster and with more hyzer, were more likely to be spinning slower and acting less stable.

Jared Roan pointed out to me that the DFP thumb would decrease spin... up to that point, it hadn't really crossed my mind.

1. MJ explains what moving the thumb does in that video, it's changing the nose angle. It really shouldn't affect spin because the disc is still slinging around your index finger the same rate unless you are changing something else as well, or actually slipping out power/leverage. It's rare I actually move the thumb from the flightplate/rim meeting, I think it helps to have long fingers like you and clard have for the DT grip. You can still thumb push regardless, I feel the most thumb leverage/push against the rim.


3. Rolling the wrist under puts you into a natural powerful extension position, I think of it as the bench press position. You will pronate when you extend your arms to press. My arm at the hit is the same as it would for a press.

 

[sidewinder22]

I practiced the water bottle drill first a few times today to get the feel. It helped me to slow down. Trying to concentrate on timing the thumb push, I had success but it wasn't consistent. When I switched to concentrating on rotating the forearm instead, I was able to get nice low and straight shots. Both basically have the same effect with a thumb push

Both are the same thing!

 

[RFrance]

I know SW. It's just a mental thing. If I think thumb, it's inconsistent, if I think forearm, a lot more consistent.

 

[slowplastic]

Well, there's something to this. I wasn't throwing particularly well today, likely in the 375' power bracket, maybe 400' occasionally. Afterwards I tried this grip with fairways, seemed great. Threw distance drivers, 4 out of the 6 throws were 430'+.

If I tried to think about the push/rotation I got griplocks/right releases, but with tons of ejection speed so the disc held nose down the whole way. On straight shots I didn't even have to see them finish, after the first 1/3 of the flight I knew they were absolutely crushed for me.

Nothing else in my throw feels different, just the disc feels like nothing when I throw. I don't feel any tugging on my fingers or anything, it just feels smooth.

I can't wait to get some more open field practice. I know I'll suffer some inconsistency with it at first. But I'm definitely sold on more experimenting. I threw several bombs in a row and I want more!

 

[sidewinder22]

Turn the knuckles, that's where the snap/power comes from:

 

[slowplastic]

Turn the knuckles, that's where the snap/power comes from:

Wow, as silly as it is I never thought of the "thumb push" or whatever concept it is that way. That really makes sense.

I've been turning my arm over for a long time after my release to help with a full follow through/gumby arm, but I never thought of a wrist rotation in that manner. This will be interesting.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I reread this thread yesterday and I am definitely intrigued. This grip feels a lot more natural to me, but I have always tried to force a more compact power grip because I was under the impression that it was correct. Combined with the bottle drill wrist roll I have been practicing, I got some very clean, fast releases yesterday. It really seems like the disc pops/ejects out of my hand as opposed to sliding out. I am really looking forward to doing some field work today to see some more results.

Edit: just for my own clarification, this grip for me has most of the grip tension on my ring/middle fingers and thumb. The index finger is more of a semi-passive hook and the pinkie, though tucked under on the rim, feels mostly just along for the ride. Does this sound correct?

 

[cdunlapb12]

Just spent two hours only throwing mids and putters. I could tell when I got it right but I think I'm exaggerating the wrist roll. Had a lot of nose up stalls. But the throws took less effort and I had better flight when I think I got it right. Only got to 300' with my Rocs and Buzz's but that's probably due to form issues.

 

[slowplastic]

I need some time in marked fields to really nail specifics, not sure when that will happen, but it's been confirmed that this is an improvement for me. I don't know if it's the thumb placement, but it's really that this DFP concept got me "choking up" on the disc into my palm differently. I threw a bunch of shots today in a smaller area, not sure of distances, but discs were definitely gliding longer and beefcake discs acted way more mellow. For example my OS Destroyer instead of seeming like 12/4/+0.5/4 it was like 12/5/0/3 and amazing (I now see why people really love them). Discs that would normally hint at turn were instead holding a turn and gliding.

It's easy for me to roll my hand over instead of "under", so I need to experiment with that (which is the knuckle twist/forearm twist/thumb push), and I also need to nail down thumb placement. But I can't believe that changing disc placement has given me the a distinct increase compared to what I was doing before. As usual SW22 was right (a long time ago), I just had to hear it a few different ways for it to make sense later, which this thread helped with.

 

[cdunlapb12]

Discs are definitely less stable throwing like this. I thought it was OAT but the disc doesn't appear to be wobbling at all. Still no major distance gain though.

 

[clard]

Discs are definitely less stable throwing like this. I thought it was OAT but the disc doesn't appear to be wobbling at all. Still no major distance gain though.

I find it really curious that both you and HUB have reported your discs flying less stable. I have found the opposite to be true across the board. I have a really beat up S Scorpius that used to be my max d driver I only used in tailwind and now it is much more stable than it used to be. Everything has stabled up for me.

 

[rjaco]

I'm with clard. I can throw just about anything on a hyzer using this grip and rolling my wrist. I can't seem to throw a turnover shot to save my life. I'm sure part of it is my form. Thinking this will be a good way to hyzer flip.