DFP Thumb Grip

[amac23]

What is the alignment like in the palm of the hand with this type of grip? When trying it out, it seemed to me like it was pretty much the same as the 3rd image here, almost perpendicular to the seam of the hand.

Posted a link to the wrong picture....

This is the picture I meant to post:

 

[Kodachrome]

i've started throwing with the thumb out a bit farther only with my OLF and PD2 and i'd say it helps me hold on longer for the max d and real hard throws for low hyzerflips, etc. any narrower rim just feels weird in that grip to me, though.

 

[hazed_0ut]

Question...what am I doing with my other fingers? Should I be pushing the disc into my palm with them/putting pressure onto the rim?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[RFrance]

What I'm having good results with is a loose grip. HUB called this a suitcase grip in the first post. If I held the disc out to the side it would hang on just the four fingertips. For me it removes all the tension in the arm that I used to have by pressing into the palm to get the disk pivot.

 

[tylerc]

I cant tell a difference in my throw doing this.. Maybe im doing it wrong

 

[dfdubyagolf]

So you have to actively try and roll your wrist under slightly at release? Or it just naturally happens with the suitcase grip?

 

[slowplastic]

I cant tell a difference in my throw doing this.. Maybe im doing it wrong

Or maybe you were already holding it the right way so there's not really any difference.

 

[clard]

So you have to actively try and roll your wrist under slightly at release? Or it just naturally happens with the suitcase grip?

Actively rolling under or pushing under with the thumb.

 

[slowplastic]

I threw for a while today trying to sort things out...didn't go great but it also wasn't the best conditions (bit of headwind one way to flip glidey stuff, tailwind the other way to push things down), and the field didn't have any landmarks until the 420' mark...and I couldn't get anything there.

But I can agree with what clard just said. If I do nothing with my grip/wrist then I hold the disc "over" a bit and they come out wanting to turn and ride the turn for a long ways. Trying to roll under feels weird, so what seemed to work best was the feel of just "squeezing" down on the flight plate with the thumb which is like pushing downwards while gripping harder, which seemed to achieve proper releases at an increased speed. I was also having a lot of issues with low releases where I would hit the ground 250' away when the disc still had a lot of speed, or they wouldn't get a full flight with fade even at distance.

After I finished, of course, I realized I could have held my grip slightly differently as well which felt more powerful (just an angle thing in my hand), so definitely experiment with disc placement to get it where it feels right and you can really squeeze that thing when you need to.

 

[crd 81]

Like HyzerUniBomber (HUB) said in the OP, he used to throw backhand with the idea of backhanding someone. That has been my thinking as well. With rolling the wrist under/pushing the thumb this takes on more of what one would expect when hammering a nail sideways, which coincides with what Blake describes as "pounding the hammer" in this thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220. I don't know if this is conincidental or intentional on his part.

I might have overlooked it, have forgotten it, or didn't piece it together correctly, but I don't remember Blake talking a whole lot about rolling the wrist under like what's being talked about here. Maybe this is one of the missing components in Blake's "Secret Technique"?

I need to get and try this soon.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Like HyzerUniBomber (HUB) said in the OP, he used to throw backhand with the idea of backhanding someone. That has been my thinking as well. With rolling the wrist under/pushing the thumb this takes on more of what one would expect when hammering a nail sideways, which coincides with what Blake describes as "pounding the hammer"

Maybe it is my particular mobility issues in the shoulder but in order to keep a relaxed shoulder and properly follow through the rolling under hammer behind you type motion must happen, my shoulder simply does not move that far without rolling under, and I think all shoulders are similar just don't give immediate pain when moving 'wrong'.

As far as deep thumb plate pressure? I don't think i'm there yet. I can do it with success with a putter on upshots but any power at all i'm getting serious nose up issues. I still have more to work on first I think.

 

[crd 81]

Maybe it is my particular mobility issues in the shoulder but in order to keep a relaxed shoulder and properly follow through the rolling under hammer behind you type motion must happen, my shoulder simply does not move that far without rolling under, and I think all shoulders are similar just don't give immediate pain when moving 'wrong'.

As far as deep thumb plate pressure? I don't think i'm there yet. I can do it with success with a putter on upshots but any power at all i'm getting serious nose up issues. I still have more to work on first I think.

Yes, there is an incidental rolling the wrist under with proper form. I believe there is, however, a difference between an incidental wrist roll and an intentional one.

Try it out. Go through your throwing motions without focusing on rolling your wrist/pushing the thumb forward. See where your wrist is at when you finish. After doing that, try rolling your wrist under/pushing your thumb forward intentionally in your throwing motion. I think you might see a difference.

 

[slowplastic]

This is likely a question for SW22, but if anyone has an answer let me know...

So this whole thumb push/roll under thing, which is like turning your wrist when punching...is this what is happening in a pro level baseball swing too before the wrists turn over to follow through with the bat? I've never thought of rolling "under" near contact before, just rolling your wrists the other way for the follow through motion.

For example, watch the left wrist of Bautista (pretend it's a LHBH drive with 600' of power) from 0:33-0:35 in the video. You can see it roll under at/through contact, and then the wrists turn over the other way to follow through the swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

This is likely a question for SW22, but if anyone has an answer let me know...

So this whole thumb push/roll under thing, which is like turning your wrist when punching...is this what is happening in a pro level baseball swing too before the wrists turn over to follow through with the bat? I've never thought of rolling "under" near contact before, just rolling your wrists the other way for the follow through motion.

For example, watch the left wrist of Bautista (pretend it's a LHBH drive with 600' of power) from 0:33-0:35 in the video. You can see it roll under at/through contact, and then the wrists turn over the other way to follow through the swing.

Yep, that's extension through impact, same in stick golf/drive the thumb.

 

[slowplastic]

Yep, that's extension through impact, same in stick golf/drive the thumb.

That's pretty amazing how there's crossover to everything. It's also pretty amazing how it's taken me forever to swing a bat somewhat properly, and that it's still not right (but I still manage to swing a good average along the way).

I've felt that extension/roll under when swinging the bat lefty (same as RHBH throw) and something felt more powerful in the snap than my normal righty swing...now I think I know that this is one of those major factors. Except my hand-eye coordination is horrendous that direction.

I guess that roll under is part of my natural tendency during some release angles with RHBH and it crossed over to swinging a bat lefty...which is why this whole thing made me wonder this question.

Now I just have to learn how to do that roll under with a bat righty and a disc RHBH at the correct angles...

At least every problem means the chance for more distance gains.

 

[rhatton1]

that's extension through impact

Love that phrase!

 

[ClydesdaleDan]

I would like to say that I'm not disagreeing with anybody else about what's happening here because I think there are several things affected by rolling the wrist under and by the DFP grip. I would like to point out however, one effect it may be having that I haven't seen brought up yet. I believe that both the DFP grip and rolling under allow the pinch point to stay on the far side of the disc later than a roll-free release with a more traditional grip. They do this by shifting the hand to be more on top of the disc rather than around the edge.

Thought experiment:
Hold a disc in front of yourself with a straight arm (where it would ideally be just before release), align the disc as you would with a normal power or fan grip but only pinch with the index finger and thumb. At this point in the throw the wrist would be getting pulled closed by the weight of the disc so the pinch point is somewhere in the 10 o'clock position (12 being towards target). Now two scenarios can play out from here, either you don't roll the wrist, or you roll under.
If you don't roll, the wrist extends to straight and the pinch point is now around 12 o'clock. The disc now slings around the pinch point to hopefully 4 or 5 o'clock. That gives us 4-5 "hours" of pivot that the disc must travel in that last second.
If you do roll under (or otherwise get your hand on top of the disc) while the wrist extends you will notice that the pivot point can still be kept in the 9-10 o"clock region. The disc now slings around to 4 or 5 as it did before. This leaves 6-8 "hours" of pivot in that final instant.

To me this appears to be further delaying some acceleration and therefore adding to the hit. I could be completely off here but I think this is a similar concept to what allows Swedish technique to generate such a powerful hit.

or I'm crazy and none of that made sense...

 

[sidewinder22]

...thus the myth of the disc pivot...
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24903

 

[runningDoc]

Bratten's 2 finger grip will get you to hook your index correctly and seated not deep into the palm, but against the hard part of the fore palm/knuckle. I use the same fan grip as MJ, but every grip is based on the 2 finger index hook, it's like the universal grip fix.

Ah man I always stopped watching that video after MJ explained his grip, but didn't realize the second to last guy is *Bard Soleng! :doh:

He uses a variation of the DFP thumb grip, where his thumbnail will actually vertically jam/press down into the flight plate. His mids (super beat in comets and buzzzes) have permanent depressions on the flight plate from his nail pressing into the flight plate.

what I noticed about the guys I've seen use the DFP thumb grip, is that they can throw super overstable discs easily, but also hyzerflip flippy discs for control. I remember seeing Bard try throwing a PD2 and after two throws, figured it out and could throw it for distance even on long straight fairways.


*when I first started playing two years ago in Norwalk, CT (Cranbury Park) all the local guys were super nice and helpful. They even would let me as a total newbie play rounds with them and give me instructions/tips. Little did I know that little 5,800ft course full of dogs/walkers/hikers/MTB/ was chalk full of a stellar pro disc golfers (the Frizzaks and others). They're all so quiet/humble about it too. it's wierd seeing random YouTube clips of them beating McBeth in an A-Tier, or DISCRAFT instructional videos and they never really mentioned anything about it.

 

[tankmlee]

i would like to say this grip helped me in two ways, it helped me control my discs a little more, makes it easier to get them nse down or on a good hyzer, and helped me roll my wrist under right before the throw, i had never tried that and it made my throw super easy and gave me extra distance with less power, i was really impressed.