DGCR v UDisc Rating

[dreadlock86]

this is a conversation that has been had myriad times here and we've seen dozens of suggestions on things that could be changed. some of them even seem reasonable. but there's a really good reason nothing has changed and it's not because Tim is lazy or doesn't care. the way things are is the most fair it could probably be and any changes are likely to have unforeseen negative consequences that rile up one contingent of users or another. the status quo is usually easiest to justify too.

 

[bbwrenn]

I don't disagree that skewing ratings to newer reviews might make them less accurate or more easily manipulatable. That is certainly true.

However, if anything, favoring newer reviews will probably decrease the average course rating slightly. Maybe not for exceptional courses, but on average I feel like courses are being reviewed on there more harshly than in the past.

For two of my most local courses, they have continued to get better every year with noticeable improvements, but the ratings have dropped over time. They've both dropped .2 and .3 in the last couple of years, while being an easy half disc better if I was rating them on here. What I've noticed is that where 3-4 years ago everybody on there gave every good course 5 stars, that seems to have stopped a bit. Most of the positive reviews I see tend to give 4 or 4.5 stars now. Not a big deal, and I can't confirm if that's just my area or a trend on the app.

It would make sense that with the Covid boom and having literally 2x+ the amount of users, that the average user isn't who they used to be.

 

[Cgkdisc]

My biggest gripe is the inability to pause reviews when a course is going through renovation. Unless you completely enter a new course and RIP the current one once your renovations are completed, the negative reviews you get during the renovation will get added into the future average. This is especially an issue when preliminary tweaks are made before winter sets in and the remaining upgrades like new baskets, signs and/or concrete pads won't happen until spring.

 

[bbwrenn]

Oh I forgot to add. My personal theory about why the grades are getting bit harsher. Again, I'm not saying that's a fact, just my observation.

My theory is that I think more and more players are watching coverage on youtube and attending local tournaments, even just to spectate. This means a larger slice of the player base has in their mind what they think a good course is supposed to be...

Versus 1997, when "Timmy disc golf" would go out to their local 3300' pitch and putt with an aviar in one hand, a beer in another, and a smoke in the other (yes, 3 hands), and shoot 10 down while throwing only 175' hyzers. Then they'd run into a PDGA golfer and be like "oh whos this Ken KLEEMOE guy on your driver?" ... Thus if they ever went to a pretty good course, it was an automatic 5-star luxury experience.

 

[DavidSauls]

For what it's worth, though recent reviews might not change a course's overall rating by much, anyone going beyond the rating and actually reading the reviews, will end up reading the most recent ones. I mean, I doubt many people read all of the reviews on a course. So those people will still get a more-current feel for the course.

 

[bbwrenn]

For what it's worth, though recent reviews might not change a course's overall rating by much, anyone going beyond the rating and actually reading the reviews, will end up reading the most recent ones. I mean, I doubt many people read all of the reviews on a course. So those people will still get a more-current feel for the course.

Related to this, I do like that Tim made it so that on here, updated reviews get bumped to the top. I think that's a simple but effective feature.

 

[DavidSauls]

Related to this, I do like that Tim made it so that on here, updated reviews get bumped to the top. I think that's a simple but effective feature.

I didn't realize that, but it's a good idea.

 

[dreadlock86]

Related to this, I do like that Tim made it so that on here, updated reviews get bumped to the top. I think that's a simple but effective feature.

that is a setting that you must select

"current mix" for the sorting field

 

[dreadlock86]

My biggest gripe is the inability to pause reviews when a course is going through renovation. Unless you completely enter a new course and RIP the current one once your renovations are completed, the negative reviews you get during the renovation will get added into the future average. This is especially an issue when preliminary tweaks are made before winter sets in and the remaining upgrades like new baskets, signs and/or concrete pads won't happen until spring.

i have seen courses on pause before so it is possible. but i'm sure it requires mod action.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

i have seen courses on pause before so it is possible. but i'm sure it requires mod action.

I think the owner or designer just has to message Tim.

 

[lee76007]

I've noticed the past few months UDisc has now limited the number of what I call comments to 50, so if your #50 the next comment will bump you out. I've never posted a comment, and just give a rating.

I still find UDisc useful for the frequent course conditions update, which I participate. Also, outstanding directions app to take me right up to the parking lot for course bags.

DGCR will always have the Deck and the Conn when it comes to Disc Golf information gathering.

 

[Cgkdisc]

i have seen courses on pause before so it is possible. but i'm sure it requires mod action.

Pretty sure I've done it on DGCR. It's UDisc where I believe you have to enter a new course and layouts once the upgrades are completed if you want to wipe out the poor reviews that may have been posted during the incomplete upgrade process. In the meantime, you will have wasted time doing those temporary smart layouts so players could still find their way around during the upgrade time period.

 

[glassila]

so... course ratings will be able to jump from 4.1 to 4.9 in a jiffy

Giving added weight to newer ratings will better reflect the current state of a course (as long as the reviews are quality).

Courses that have made recent improvments would befefit from this, courses that need work/maintenance would suffer.

Could a course go from a 4.1 to a 4.9? Only if they have made some incredible improvements and have turned the course into a 5 star course. And if that's the case then it deserves it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Ah, but what's the right number of recent review to weight, and how much more should they be weighted, to give the right rating for a course?

(Caution: Whatever you answer, someone else will answer differently).

Would the formula be the same for a course with 13 reviews, and one with 104?

In my opinion, any formula -- weighting recent reviews, out of town reviews, trusted reviewers, whatever -- just replaces a straightforward average with a subjective and debatable formula. And that's assuming that it's an easy calculation to code into the website (which it may be, for all I know).

 

[ru4por]

I know it likely does not bear repeating....................................REVIEWS > RATING

 

[DavidSauls]

I'll add that for any given course, you can filter reviews and get a rating to suit your criteria. For example, for our private course, I can limit to reviews since 2017, and correct the rating from 4.41 to 4.38. I could also filter by years experience or courses played by the reviewers.

Looks like a premium membership may give even more options.

This doesn't help for a general search, of course. But I suspect that whatever you do, it won't make a big difference for the great majority of courses.

 

[dreadlock86]

Giving added weight to newer ratings will better reflect the current state of a course (as long as the reviews are quality).

the last part is a huge assumption. and even if they are quality the first part is not necessarily true. it's entirely a matter of opinion.

Courses that have made recent improvments would befefit from this, courses that need work/maintenance would suffer.

Could a course go from a 4.1 to a 4.9? Only if they have made some incredible improvements and have turned the course into a 5 star course. And if that's the case then it deserves it.

those numbers were a dig on udisc ratings. it definitely doesn't apply here.



also, i 100% agree with everything DavidSauls said

Ah, but what's the right number of recent review to weight, and how much more should they be weighted, to give the right rating for a course?

(Caution: Whatever you answer, someone else will answer differently).

Would the formula be the same for a course with 13 reviews, and one with 104?

In my opinion, any formula -- weighting recent reviews, out of town reviews, trusted reviewers, whatever -- just replaces a straightforward average with a subjective and debatable formula. And that's assuming that it's an easy calculation to code into the website (which it may be, for all I know).

 

[aren]

I don't mind giving more weight to the latest ratings. In our area, we have 25, 20 year-old courses that we're finally giving some upgrades through tee signs, better baskets, improved course design, etc. It would be nice to see that reflected.

FWIW, I'm just about to post a review of one of our local courses here on DGCR because half of the reviews are a decade old when the course was 9 instead of 18.

 

[HyooMac]

A related instance is how you review and rate courses that are obviously still in development.


I've come across a lot that I felt were "finished enough" that I had no problem reviewing and rating them. I might make a note in the review (for example, temporary signage), but I feel like my rating will remain accurate for the foreseeable future.


A slightly different case are the new "finished" courses that still need traffic to beat them in some - fairways might still be a bit taken over by weeds in the summer, pathways from basket to tee aren't really clear yet, etc.). Probably doesn't affect my rating, but I'll mention things in the review.


The most difficult for me are the ones that are clearly unfinished - and I wonder if it's fair to rate and review. But - if it's open for play, and people are gonna show up to play it, I figure they deserve to know what to expect: good, bad, or work in progress (as long as the review explains the circumstances).


This last example is top of mind because of the review I posted this morning. I read the only other review (from my man ItsRudy, who I almost always agree with...). We PM'd a bit and even though our ratings differ (4 vs. 2), he encouraged me to post a review. I do think this is a case where two reviews are better than one...


https://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=13534&mode=rev#91525


If anyone is interested is reading reviews about an unfinished 9, I'd welcome your feedback.

(BTW for additional context, it's currently rated 4.0 on uDisc, with 11 ratings)

 

[Pizza God]

when reviewing a new course that is not finished yet, I base my rating on what I expect the course to eventually be.

Here is a review of a course I played right after the basket were put in. From what I have heard, the City now has the course on a mowing schedule.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=13443&page=1&sort=date_desc&mode=rev#91202