DGPT: 2020 The Preserve Championship July 3-5

[Orioles_Lefty]

Some of those fairways are incredibly wide and people were still missing them. I say if you have 100ft+ of fairway to hit and you miss it, you deserve to take a stroke.

Simple: The sport is trying to grow non playing spectators. Bombs impress nps more.

I agree, Brutus. The OB looked fairly well marked to me, as Eagle kept finding it in R4. I guess marking that OB would have disincentivized bombs. [shrug]

 

[Jimb]

I think the main thing about the course i didnt like was it did not punish a poor drive. I am unsure how to fix that at the course other than ropes. But in the future a line of trees along or even in the fairways could help. You could see this in action on a couple of holes with respect to scoring separation. Holes 15, 16, and 17 all had scoring separation, but all went about it differently.

Maybe re-shaping some of the fairways by letting the grass grow higher in certain areas could help. You could create distinct landing zones this way. If the rough grass is tall and thick enough, it would essentially prevent a run up since you're not allowed to trample down your lie. It could also affect your angle of release. This would be more of that natural OB that is talked about. Like in golf, the rough isn't as easy as the fairway to hit from, but it's in bounds. Maybe this could have a similar effect.

Of course, this also brings some negatives into play, too... lost discs, more time searching for lost discs, snakes, tics, etc. It just seems like a simple way to possibly improve the play.

 

[Steve West]

I think the main thing about the course i didnt like was it did not punish a poor drive. I am unsure how to fix that at the course other than ropes. But in the future a line of trees along or even in the fairways could help. You could see this in action on a couple of holes with respect to scoring separation. Holes 15, 16, and 17 all had scoring separation, but all went about it differently.

The punishment is not as visible or severe, but it's there. Where the fairway was 200 feet wide, a throw on the wrong side of the fairway can be 140 farther from the target than a throw on the right side of the fairway. For the 1000-rated players at this event, each additional 380 feet was an extra throw. So, the worst throws on the fairway got punished by more than a third of a throw. A lot more subtle, but over 54 holes it adds up.

Still, I'd also like to see some new trees to make throws from the bad side get creative.

 

[the_lung]

The punishment is not as visible or severe, but it's there. Where the fairway was 200 feet wide, a throw on the wrong side of the fairway can be 140 farther from the target than a throw on the right side of the fairway. For the 1000-rated players at this event, each additional 380 feet was an extra throw. So, the worst throws on the fairway got punished by more than a third of a throw. A lot more subtle, but over 54 holes it adds up.

Still, I'd also like to see some new trees to make throws from the bad side get creative.

Bingo. The subtle extra distance is still not enough, and these guys can overcome that. You need trees, otherwise it's just not disc golf. I'm sure the TD and the staff and the players are all happy with this event, and it should be celebrated to a degree. But these continued bolf course layouts, as entertaining as they may be for spectating and as favorable as they may be for media coverage, are a continued embarrassment to the sport. And one that is also sadly growing in number.

 

[Jolt]

The "problem" we always come back to is that if it´s HARD for the top 25 players. . .it will be a nightmare for the normal players that play 51 weeks of the year.

So do we build for those thousands of players that play and pay all year. . .or the top 25 that play one weekend every year?

 

[Steve West]

The "problem" we always come back to is that if it´s HARD for the top 25 players. . .it will be a nightmare for the normal players that play 51 weeks of the year.

So do we build for those thousands of players that play and pay all year. . .or the top 25 that play one weekend every year?

Build for the thousands of players, but when an Open event is held there, set par for 1000-rated players.

Open=Gold=1000-rated=MPO.

 

[oldmandiscer]

For some of these people talking about moving tees and pins back, I get what they're saying. The problem is there isn't room in most of the spots or it would infringe on a different hole. You'd have to actually see the course to understand. Hole 4 is a perfect example. If they could've made it longer I'm sure they would've. It's literally surrounded by the first 3 holes and woods.

I really enjoyed this one. Even with the crazy scores. If it wasn't so calm it would've been different. It's not usually like that. Not Kansas windy but not dead calm like the first 2 rounds.

I have played there. There is room. #4 pin could go 80 feet right. #1 tee could go 80 feet back. There is plenty of room for modifications to toughen it up. I just think watching ALL birdies on some holes is boring to be flat out honest.

60% birdie percentage is too high for many holes. Some simple tweaks to bring the scores down is not to difficult to make, while not overly punishing the medium arms. I still think distance is a skill that is NOT rewarded enough though. If you don't throw 450 or 500, then that's a skill the pro at this event will be punished for and you should be. There are plenty of events for medium and shorter arms to win on, plenty of tightly wooded courses for accuracy.

I like the fact that this course rewards big arms with little artificial OB. But to perfect it and challenge the field some tweaks should be made to make it more interesting to watch.

 

[oldmandiscer]

The "problem" we always come back to is that if it´s HARD for the top 25 players. . .it will be a nightmare for the normal players that play 51 weeks of the year.

So do we build for those thousands of players that play and pay all year. . .or the top 25 that play one weekend every year?

MOST of the holes played great. It's just a few that were on the soft side. #11 being a perfect example. Some guys like Ricky and Eagle were trying for eagle but it was just out of range. While most of the field had easy birdies. Simply not a good hole for the pro field. Mediocre drive, chip up from 150-200 feet, tap in. No challenge at all for these guys. Anthony Barela shanked his drive straight left into the trees, got lucky, kicked off a tree and still got 300 feet on his drive and still had an easy approach for birdie. A par 4 should require two solid shots, Not one shank and an easy approach. Now if his shanked drive got 300 feet but the basket was now 450 from there tucked further right and long, he needs to execute a tough shot.

I'm not being overly critical, just make a few tweaks on the soft holes.

 

[wolfhaley]

If they move #4's pin 80 feet right it'd be over the OB cart path and would potentially conflict with #1's tee if the was 80 feet back. That cart path is also what takes you to the other side of the course.

And there are plenty of courses that reward big distance already. GBO, Memorial, Vegas, Jonesboro, San Francisco etc. You think AB couldn't throw a 450' recovery shot too? I guess we gotta complain about something.

 

[oldmandiscer]

If they move #4's pin 80 feet right it'd be over the OB cart path and would potentially conflict with #1's tee if the was 80 feet back. That cart path is also what takes you to the other side of the course.

And there are plenty of courses that reward big distance already. GBO, Memorial, Vegas, Jonesboro, San Francisco etc. You think AB couldn't throw a 450' recovery shot too? I guess we gotta complain about something.

AB could, but it wouldn't be as easy. That's the point is to make it interesting and not to make it so much as a given that they are all going to birdie with a gimme upshot. #1's basket could be pushed back 50 or 100 feet just as easily too. I'm just saying there is room to make changes and make it more challenging. Uli kept reiterating how easy the course "birdie fest, lowest scores ever, etc." was and so did Philo "when I played the practice rounds I thought 18 under was the score that would be shot". So I am not the only one. :thmbup:

I know there is plenty of room to the right on #4 to move the basket as well. There is probably 100 feet to the woods line. Who cares if a cart path is there? lol

Again I liked the event, MOST holes played great, some did not however offer a tough challenge. Simply am giving my opinion on how to make it even more entertaining.

 

[wolfhaley]

I agree that the pros shredded the course. Seems a lot of people's complaints about DD was artificial OB and long open holes. This course, while similar, is kind of the opposite. A few shorter technical holes, hardly any OB while still being on a golf course. I still feel it would play a bit tougher if the wind was up though.

 

[_MTL_]

People greatly misinterpret the difficulty of our game. Our game's challenge is to make as few mistakes as possible.

 

[BillFleming]

Every new course will have growing pains. I'm sure the owner will learn and adapt from what he saw happen during the tournament rounds

Ex-ball golf courses are great for growing our sport....land can be difficult to find so re-using ex-ball golf courses provides lots of land for new disc golf courses. There are usually ponds, watering systems, trees, and other features existing that are valuable to setting up a disc golf course. The only issue is that ball golf courses have open fairways....but that is 'fixable' by creating hazards/out of bounds/rough/lines where you have to go through trees where needed. But until the course is played enough, you can't tell where the 'fixes' are needed. And fixes for casual players aren't the same as fixes needed for tournament players.

The only thing I don't like about converting ball golf courses to disc golf are the sand traps. In ball golf, all shots are done from a stand-still...not so in disc golf. Sand is not easy to run and stop in...especially since a run up requires turning on the leading foot. Sand is a twisted ankle just waiting to happen. It shouldn't be that way. Cover up or remove the sand and make it a 'growth' rough (weeds/long grass/whatever)....but please, stop with the sand.

 

[ru4por]

People greatly misinterpret the difficulty of our game. Our game's challenge is to make as few mistakes as possible.

I think this is a great point. Many think darts is too easy. Watch some top pro competition and you make think so as well. The game has been around for centuries. There is little talk about moving the line back 12 ft or changing the board to make the game more difficult.

Though the concept is not without precedent. See bowling.....

 

[Getty]

The only thing I don't like about converting ball golf courses to disc golf are the sand traps. In ball golf, all shots are done from a stand-still...not so in disc golf. Sand is not easy to run and stop in...especially since a run up requires turning on the leading foot. Sand is a twisted ankle just waiting to happen. It shouldn't be that way. Cover up or remove the sand and make it a 'growth' rough (weeds/long grass/whatever)....but please, stop with the sand.

I dealt with this very issue at South Fork Landing in North Bend, WA. I decided to put baskets near the traps so there wouldn't have to be a run-up to throw. I made them hazards so a one-stroke penalty is incurred. One basket is about four feet away from a trap. Get aggressive and miss...pay the price.

 

[nothinbuttree]

The only thing I don't like about converting ball golf courses to disc golf are the sand traps. In ball golf, all shots are done from a stand-still...not so in disc golf. Sand is not easy to run and stop in...especially since a run up requires turning on the leading foot. Sand is a twisted ankle just waiting to happen. It shouldn't be that way. Cover up or remove the sand and make it a 'growth' rough (weeds/long grass/whatever)....but please, stop with the sand.

In bolf, 'most' sand traps are near the greens, or at least halfway down the fairways. I am sure there are exceptions, but for the most part, if you are in sand, you are a standstill away from the basket.

 

[BillFleming]

I dealt with this very issue at South Fork Landing in North Bend, WA. I decided to put baskets near the traps so there wouldn't have to be a run-up to throw. I made them hazards so a one-stroke penalty is incurred. One basket is about four feet away from a trap. Get aggressive and miss...pay the price.

(In reference to the bolded part).

That's seems to be drastic*; four feet is within circle 1...you are penalizing players for basically parking the basket.

I can see why you would have it as a penalty though...if there wasn't a penalty for being in the sand trap, players would aim for it as it would stop their disc close to the basket - no fear of sliding/rolling past.

* I first though of calling it 'mean', but thought better of it. I don't think it is meant to be mean to players...just tough. I just can't get over being parked and taking a penalty. I think it would be better outside of circle 1....players shouldn't be penalized for being inside circle 1, but outside? Heck yes....

 

[BillFleming]

In bolf, 'most' sand traps are near the greens, or at least halfway down the fairways. I am sure there are exceptions, but for the most part, if you are in sand, you are a standstill away from the basket.

Yes...most are near greens....but when the course is converted to disc golf, the location of the green can change. Look at the 2020 Preserve FPO rounds....Catrina Allen was in a sand trap a few times and it was far enough away where she had to do a run (walk) up. I'd hate to watch anyone end up with a twisted ankle/knee (or worse) because of a sand trap (whether they do a run/walk-up or jump putt).

We can't make every course perfectly safe....there are rocks, wet grass, etc, but sand traps are something that can be made safe.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The original buncr rule was designed to provide a challenge versus a penalty for baskets placed close to sand traps. Landing in the sand trap was not a stroke penalty but a distance relief "penalty" where you move back on the LOP to the edge of the trap for your next throw/putt. Players have a reason to avoid the trap but have a chance to save a penalty by making the putt, in the same way traps and rough work in ball golf.

 

[Getty]

(In reference to the bolded part).

That's seems to be drastic*; four feet is within circle 1...you are penalizing players for basically parking the basket.

I can see why you would have it as a penalty though...if there wasn't a penalty for being in the sand trap, players would aim for it as it would stop their disc close to the basket - no fear of sliding/rolling past.

* I first though of calling it 'mean', but thought better of it. I don't think it is meant to be mean to players...just tough. I just can't get over being parked and taking a penalty. I think it would be better outside of circle 1....players shouldn't be penalized for being inside circle 1, but outside? Heck yes....

It needed to be that way to put some teeth to the hole. A perfectly placed shot puts you on the high lip of the trap looking down at the basket on the other side of the trap about 20 feet away so the trap isn't really in play. The aggressive hyzerbomb line off the tee that goes past the basket puts you in harms way or directly in the trap and putting for par.

Bolf courses are hard enough to design around without every drive being a wide-open bomb. I was able to cross multiple fairways and use tree lines for low ceilings on this one, but it still needed the help of hazards and OB lines to make it tougher.