DGPT: 2020 The Preserve Championship July 3-5

[BogeyNoMore]

The low scores were from how attackable the course is and how reachable the pins were for pro players.

Yes, those Prodigy baskets caught well, but the low scores weren't the result of "lack of spits." It's not like they we're grabbing shots that had no business staying in the basket.

 

[Bogeyman928]

Philo is commentating on the CCDG coverage and he is my fav commentator i have heard so far i think. Talks about technical stuff that no one else does. Also he is chill and doesn't try to be funny all the time.

Agreed, out of all the regulars Philo has a voice and style that seems the most professional. The fact that he's willing to mention discs beyond innova and discraft was very nice as well.

The Jomez guys drive me nuts 99% of the time its like " and Mcbeth is going with his Luna, Conrad is throwing the Aviar , and here is Keith with A DISC"

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Agree with both of you. I enjoy listening to Philo's commentary more than pretty much any of the others I've heard. He provides insights that the others don't. He still has a sense of humor, but he doesn't try too hard.

 

[robdeforge]

Rule 802.03 says the 30 second clock starts when:
1. The previous player has thrown; and
2. The player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie; and
3. They are next in the throwing order; and
4. The playing area is clear and free of distractions.

So, if you want the clock started when gets to the lie, I believe that's not correct. When Nikko is, for example, dropping dirt or grass to assess the wind conditions, or figuring out how far he has to straddle, etc. that's contained in step 2, before the clock starts.

https://v.redd.it/hwzvwpruta951

1 mississippi, 2 mississippi.....

 

[BeRReGoN]

https://v.redd.it/hwzvwpruta951

1 mississippi, 2 mississippi.....

He marks his lie at 10 secs of that video and releases his putter at 1:08, on 18 it was even longer because after his ridiculous putt on 17, I decided to check my watch when he would mark his lie on 18 and he was well over a minute on that putt. I think just with the drying hand bag and wind test he was at 30 secs.

I would not like players having to execute their shot within a strict 30 secs, many players goes over 30 secs in difficult situation or on some dead putt but Nikko was terribly slow. I like his style of play, I don't mind he shows emotion but watching him live was annoying.

It made me remember watching tennis before the serve clock with Djokovic bouncing the ball for an eternity or Nadal with his 100 tics before serving. Nikko was combining both that tournament. I surely hope disc golf will not become a slow pace sport where everyone taking minutes to do every shots.

 

[Jolt]

I would go crazy playing with someone who took 30sec-1min on his putt. . imagine standing still for a 1 min just to wait for your turn to putt on every hole.
It´s not like you can do much during that time.

We have 3 "slow" players in our club, once i got all of them on my card. . worst round ever, after 9 holes we had 6 cards waiting behind us

 

[Countchunkula]

There are a few players that I love to watch on post produced rounds, but would never watch live. Nikko is one and Geoff Bennett is another. I really enjoy their shot selection, but can't sit through all of the endless pumping and readjusting.

 

[Zanguini]

I think the main thing about the course i didnt like was it did not punish a poor drive. I am unsure how to fix that at the course other than ropes. But in the future a line of trees along or even in the fairways could help. You could see this in action on a couple of holes with respect to scoring separation. Holes 15, 16, and 17 all had scoring separation, but all went about it differently.

 

[Jolt]

Lot´s of fun disc choices in FPO. .

Hole 3. . 324ft . .Paige P throws a US 3-speed Putter. . Paige S throws a OS 14-speed driver ( PP went long..PS ended up short )

 

[oldmandiscer]

The low scores were from how attackable the course is and how reachable the pins were for pro players.

Yes, those Prodigy baskets caught well, but the low scores weren't the result of "lack of spits." It's not like they we're grabbing shots that had no business staying in the basket.

Little to no wind, Wide fairways and little OB in play you will get low scores. I really feel Cale should consider some more length on a few holes.

#1 could be a great 750 foot hole.
#2 could be pushed back into the woods another 50 feet. More like 330.
#11 is silly for these guys. Push that back into the woods up and to the right. Make it about 750-800.
#12 could be pushed back 40 feet to make it 335.
#13 could be even better pushed back and right another 30 feet making that 370.
#15 was too easy, push either the basket back or tee. 700 is too short.
#17 would be cool another 50 feet back making it 320.

I thought 18 could be longer but it's probably fine. Showing that even with a little wind, eagle was not that common.

I played these courses myself a month ago(different layouts on some holes obviously), (not in the tourney) and if a bunt 375 thrower like me can reach them easily like 15 and 11, it's mince meat for the pro caliber.

I think most holes were good however. The added wind on the final day helped the course play tougher. I like having a course with little OB so the bombers can have a field day for once. However the design needs to be long to make it tough.

 

[brutalbrutus]

It made me remember watching tennis before the serve clock with Djokovic bouncing the ball for an eternity or Nadal with his 100 tics before serving. Nikko was combining both that tournament. I surely hope disc golf will not become a slow pace sport where everyone taking minutes to do every shots.

In golf, Sergio Garcia was the worst. That hand fidgeting he did before swinging was just intolerably painful to watch. He still does it a little but not nearly as bad as it was before they really started enforcing the group play times.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Some of those fairways are incredibly wide and people were still missing them. I say if you have 100ft+ of fairway to hit and you miss it, you deserve to take a stroke.

 

[BillFleming]

Rule 802.03 says the 30 second clock starts when:
1. The previous player has thrown; and
2. The player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie; and
3. They are next in the throwing order; and
4. The playing area is clear and free of distractions.

So, if you want the clock started when gets to the lie, I believe that's not correct. When Nikko is, for example, dropping dirt or grass to assess the wind conditions, or figuring out how far he has to straddle, etc. that's contained in step 2, before the clock starts.

Assessing wind, figuring out how far to straddle, etc is NOT determining the lie.

802.05 Lie (I'm not quoting the whole thing, but this is important part):
The lie is the place on the playing surface upon which the player takes a stance in order to throw.

So the 'determining the lie' does not include testing of the wind, etc.

 

[ryanrockmoran]

Lot´s of fun disc choices in FPO. .

Hole 3. . 324ft . .Paige P throws a US 3-speed Putter. . Paige S throws a OS 14-speed driver ( PP went long..PS ended up short )

Yeah the casual 325+ foot putter shot makes me want to retire from all disc throwing in shame

 

[nothinbuttree]

There are lots of things Cale could tweak simply with pin placements as well, without adding any OB or significant distance, if making some holes slightly more challenging was the intent. For example--hole 3 (I think) and hole 6--the water carry. Both pin placements are the left side of the green, with absolutely no obstructions and wide fairways (pond on 6) allowing for relatively safe and easy (for pros) mild hyzer flip or flex shots that sit down right in line with the pins. On 6, some bigger arms even took wide hyzer swings, flirting with the right side woods-line.

Take those same holes, and move the pin 30-50' to the right, and the hole changes completely, especially for those who don't have an Eagle-style forehand.

Again though, I think part of the mentality on this first one was more a stress free, just have fun type of tournament experience.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I would go crazy playing with someone who took 30sec-1min on his putt. . imagine standing still for a 1 min just to wait for your turn to putt on every hole.
It´s not like you can do much during that time.

We have 3 "slow" players in our club, once i got all of them on my card. . worst round ever, after 9 holes we had 6 cards waiting behind us

Could this be a potential reason Nikko chooses to do it? As mental a game as DG is, if this is tangible for spectators, mustn't it be more real and annoying as a cardmate? I'd be curious to see putting percentages of players with and without Nikko on their cards. If my suspicion is correct, there may be a small difference...any distraction can tighten up muscles, throw someone off their routine and a couple inches off on a 30' putt can easily cause a miss.

 

[oldmandiscer]

There are lots of things Cale could tweak simply with pin placements as well, without adding any OB or significant distance, if making some holes slightly more challenging was the intent. For example--hole 3 (I think) and hole 6--the water carry. Both pin placements are the left side of the green, with absolutely no obstructions and wide fairways (pond on 6) allowing for relatively safe and easy (for pros) mild hyzer flip or flex shots that sit down right in line with the pins. On 6, some bigger arms even took wide hyzer swings, flirting with the right side woods-line.

Take those same holes, and move the pin 30-50' to the right, and the hole changes completely, especially for those who don't have an Eagle-style forehand.

Again though, I think part of the mentality on this first one was more a stress free, just have fun type of tournament experience.

I hear you on the fun part and the wind was down too, especially the 1st two days. I still think some more distance is needed to challenge these top players. For instance #1 at 667, water left and then second shot plays over the water/OB. Now push that tee back to 750 and it brings that water more into play on the teeshot and the second shot. Versus guys being able to play way right and still have a short approach. An extra 80 feet would punish bad shots but it still isn't too far for the medium arms to score. A solid 400 foot drive then 350 in on the second. That's not asking too much for how wide the fairway is.

I saw the birdie percentage on some holes was pushing 60%, that's for the whole field including low rated players. That's just too high IMO.

I'm sure next year we will see some tweaks. He was able to gather some information this year and some tweaks can easily be made. There is plenty of land there for options.

 

[DiscFifty]

It's funny to me that the evolution from old-school "birdie or die" courses have been longer birdie or die courses that simply privilege length over everything else. Now you have to throw two long shots and drop the disc in the basket for the birdie instead of one. The scores under par are the same, so why not just go play any birdie or die course?

Simple: The sport is trying to grow non playing spectators. Bombs impress nps more.

 

[wolfhaley]

For some of these people talking about moving tees and pins back, I get what they're saying. The problem is there isn't room in most of the spots or it would infringe on a different hole. You'd have to actually see the course to understand. Hole 4 is a perfect example. If they could've made it longer I'm sure they would've. It's literally surrounded by the first 3 holes and woods.

I really enjoyed this one. Even with the crazy scores. If it wasn't so calm it would've been different. It's not usually like that. Not Kansas windy but not dead calm like the first 2 rounds.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I hear you on the fun part and the wind was down too, especially the 1st two days. I still think some more distance is needed to challenge these top players. For instance #1 at 667, water left and then second shot plays over the water/OB. Now push that tee back to 750 and it brings that water more into play on the teeshot and the second shot. Versus guys being able to play way right and still have a short approach. An extra 80 feet would punish bad shots but it still isn't too far for the medium arms to score. A solid 400 foot drive then 350 in on the second. That's not asking too much for how wide the fairway is.

I saw the birdie percentage on some holes was pushing 60%, that's for the whole field including low rated players. That's just too high IMO.

I'm sure next year we will see some tweaks. He was able to gather some information this year and some tweaks can easily be made. There is plenty of land there for options.

I agree on hole 1--not too difficult for top players as is. I am not sure where OB is exactly, but moving pin closer to an OB line could have the same effect, because the placement of the tee shot would be more critical. There was a lot of leeway on the approach shots as well as the drives. Course, it is hole 1, again part of the gameplan I think was to create a more relaxing experience.

There is plenty of punishment for errors in the upcoming courses--Idlewild for sure, and Toboggan too--those fairways seem to get more narrow when you are throwing far downhill. They did for me anyway. Anyone who has played there has to be even more impressed with Paul's -18. That is a punishing layout.