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Disc Golf Pro Tour

What does "grow the sport" mean?

Did it diminish your enjoyment of disc golf that he implied it was obscure? I'm still trying to understand why being on ESPN or whatever is supposed to enhance our playing experience.

even at 16 years playing and 400+ posts it's possible you stayed on the parts of DGCR where you improve your game and such.

"Grow the sport" is the rally cry round these parts. I'll give my definition, which will subsequently be FTFY'd and refined and disputed..

Grow the Sport is our hope in the future of disc golf being ever more popular, with more players, more courses, more discs more everything (except throws per round.. less throws!)

The TV thing is like the unattainable goal - there's not enough DG fans to have a TV broadcast worth any TV channel's time.

The underlying assumptions - from my take - are that as the Sport Grows, things will get better for us, the regular players. How does that make MY ENJOYMENT better?

basically better courses. if there are more players, more demand, there will be better courses built. NOT MORE COURSES PLEASE just better ones. although i did build one in an area that desperately needed a course... anyway -

Grow the Sport is the selfish wish so that we can have more DG in our regular lives, without having to explain how we liked disc golf "before it was cool"
 
Thank you for the seemingly simple question. It resulted in my longest blog post yet. If number of words is a useful measure, then I really care about this topic!

Today's Blog: Grow the sport ... buy why?

All feedback is welcome, read, and digested. And sometimes changes minds. Let us know your thoughts - and your experiences with the topics.

Not the traditional "Grow The Sport" essay, but I like it.

I like borrowing the Spirit Award idea from ultimate. I don't have too much experience with ultimate but, over time, I have learned about their unique "Spirit Of The Game" ethos and have been intrigued. I generally try to practice good sportmanship when I play any game but I wouldn't necessarily think of trusting the officiating of a serious contest to something as ephemeral as a "Spirit." That ultimate has thrived using this "Spirit Of The Game" system is impressive.

I really haven't observed a lot of the same "Spirit Of The Game" tradition in disc golf since I started playing tournaments a few years ago and I have to say that I haven't really missed it. I think the PDGA has done an excellent job establishing a standard for rules and practices for their tournaments. But I think it would be great if more TD's gave out a Spirit Award in their tournaments. There's definitely room in PDGA tournaments for such an award. It would be a perfect way to begin to insert the "Spirit Of The Game" into our game with a light, positive touch.
 
Thank you for the seemingly simple question. It resulted in my longest blog post yet. If number of words is a useful measure, then I really care about this topic!

Today's Blog: Grow the sport ... buy why?

All feedback is welcome, read, and digested. And sometimes changes minds. Let us know your thoughts - and your experiences with the topics.

Awww man, I really appreciate that you wrote that up :thmbup: It's awesome to hear your perspective on this and I agree with many of the points you raise.

One of the reasons I've been pushing folks on this simple question is because I don't think many of us realize just how complicated and multifaceted our reasoning is around the "grow the sport" idea.

If you were interested, I'd be excited to draft up a counterpoint response - just let me know!

Either way, cheers to you sir! :clap:
 
If you were interested, I'd be excited to draft up a counterpoint response - just let me know!

Either way, cheers to you sir! :clap:

Of course. It is a discussion that needs to be had and all counterpoints should be heard.
 
Feedback wanted: How many rounds is ideal (for Pro Tour events)?
This week's Pro Tour Blog Post.

How many rounds is ideal?

Over the next few years, one of the goals of the Pro Tour will be to make the top tier of our sport more consistent and more fun to watch. Knowing when events will be on, knowing the format of the events, and trusting that the coverage will be good will, in and of themselves, increase the number of spectators. One aspect of this is the number of rounds that events will be played.

The first PDGA NT of the year, the Memorial, was four rounds. The DGWT's first event, the La Mirada open was three rounds. What is the ideal number of rounds for a premier disc golf tournament? Also, some events have a final nine, some have a cut to make the final round, some have no cut. What is the best format? Frankly, I'm not sure. I'll start typing and we will see where this leads.

As with all things, the first step is to determine the goal. When it comes to the competition, Pro Tour events have several goals:
  • Crown the best players champion.
  • Maximize the viewership of the tour.
  • Make touring affordable so pros can stay on tour.

Two, three, four ... or more

First goal: crown the best players champion. The more holes that are played, the higher the chances that the best player will come out on top. At some point endurance becomes an issue, which is not what we are measuring, so let's agree to limit the number of rounds to four at the top end. To crown the best player champion, we want the largest number of rounds, so we should set the number of rounds to four.

Nearly 40% of the PDGA NTs had a lead change or tie broken in the fourth round. This would seem to indicate that a fourth round is useful in determining the best player. PDGA NTs since 2010, not counting the 17 three-round events:
  • 18: No lead change after round 3
  • 11: Lead change after round 3

Second goal: maximize viewership of the tour. The NFL has one game to determine the champion of their season. This increases the odds that either team can win and is insanely exciting. The NBA has a seven game series, which increases the odds that the better team will win, but lessens the excitement - until a deciding seventh game, which only happens about 25% of the time. In general, less rounds equals more excitement but also means less opportunities to watch.

  • Super Bowl: 110 million viewers
  • NBA Finals: 17.5 million viewers per game, or about 100 million over an average series

If the NBA went to a one game finals, interest in the game would certainly increase, but it would probably not increase five fold. Conversely, if the NFL went to a best of three format for the Super Bowl, interest in the game would plummet as it would cease to be a national event. It seems as though both leagues have successfully maximized the viewership for their championships.

Regarding viewership, less rounds is more exciting while more rounds is more opportunities for people to watch. In disc golf currently, it would seem that more opportunities to watch is more crucial to increasing viewership as each round is relatively exciting in its own right and one extra round gives more opportunity to build the excitement for the final round. Therefore, to maximize viewership, I am going to side with four rounds.

​Third goal: make touring affordable so pros can stay on tour. Presuming that premier events happen every couple weeks, touring pros would most likely be staying on the road during the length of the tour. This means that the extra costs incurred by staying on the road for an extra day/round are not large. However, for regional pros who may play only a few events in their region, the extra day could have a significant impact (days off work, nights away from home), and we need to remember that these regional pros are the touring pros of the future. Bearing in mind a large percentage of our players are currently regional pros, I have to give the nod to three days here.

Recap. To meet the goals, is three or four rounds better? We have a split decision.
  • Crown the best players champion. - Four rounds
  • Maximize the viewership of the tour. - Four rounds
  • Make touring affordable so pros can stay on tour. - Three rounds

And what format?

Presuming we have four rounds, should there be a cut going into the final round? And if so, should it be top half (like the Vibram Open) or a top card (like the Hambrick) or a sweet sixteen, giving anyone that could make a run at the title a chance?

Presuming we have three rounds, should we add in a skins, doubles, or pro-am event the day before or after the tournament to showcase top players and maybe some regional pros?

In the next few years, what kind of format would you like to see on the Pro Tour?
 
I think alot of people enjoyed watching the skins matches in the past (I enjoyed playing in one of them!) at Vibram. Its nice for anyone watching to see the top pros having fun and being a bit less serious than they normally are on camera. It can also lead to more exciting shots which should be good for fans.


maybe it would be possible to schedule it later in the day instead of in the morning, so that local players who work can still come watch? Its tough to get spectators at 11am on a thursday, but 5pm gives alot of people more of a chance to come watch
 


The three best players in the world discuss the controversial LA Times article. Now on our YT page.
Did anyone else notice Will mention the NSDGT? Maybe that is where the bad blood comes from. I mean Paul wasn't on it, and I know it fizzled out some bad blood stuffs involving Feldberg (don't really remember). But maybe it is seeded before the Prodigy thing lol.

I can see both players coming up together, not really partying and just enjoying the game. Than Will going on this party bus tour getting caught up in the party while Paul puts his head down and practices. Than Will blindsided by how good paul has gotten. #JustConjecture lol.
 
4 rounds gives viewers more opportunities to watch early rounds. On the other hand, 3 rounds means that the scores entering the final round are likely to be tighter, so the final round is more likely to be compelling viewing. Might a better final round be a bigger draw than an extra early round?

Is viewership better on weekdays, when people watch while allegedly at work, than on weekends when the temptation is to play? If so, could a tournament that is 3 or 4 days and has to eat up a weekday, anyway, have its final round on Monday?

I don't profess to know the answers to either---just a meandering speculation on my part.
 
...
First goal: crown the best players champion. The more holes that are played, the higher the chances that the best player will come out on top.
...

Probability that Paul would win a tournament against all the players who were at the Memorial, after n rounds:

1 19%
2 32%
3 41%
4 49%
5 55%
6 60%
7 65%
8 70%
 
For A tiers and above, I think 4 rounds would be best. 3 rounds never "feels" like it's enough. Even if it's 3 rounds of 27 it doesn't feel right.

For most of these I think doing, 1 round friday, 2 sat, 1 sun works out well. Or keep everything on the weekend if it works.

*sidenote, I'd like to see worlds still be 7 or 8 rounds. That is what made worlds special. Having only 4 rounds, makes it seem like any other tournament now :(
 
Probability that Paul would win a tournament against all the players who were at the Memorial, after n rounds:

1 19%
2 32%
3 41%
4 49%
5 55%
6 60%
7 65%
8 70%

FTFY
1 80%
2 84%
3 90%
4 95%
5 99%
6 100%
7 100%
8 100%
 
I don't care how many rounds a tournament I'm not playing is all I want to see is exceptional disc golf on great courses. I watch the beaver state fling every year because I can see the difficulty in the courses they play and the shots they execute. Wide open hyzer bombs is boring I had a hard time watching the dgwt because the course looked boring. I think you guys did well in choosing some great venues for your tour the number of rounds won't matter to me.
 
I don't care how many rounds a tournament I'm not playing is all I want to see is exceptional disc golf on great courses. I watch the beaver state fling every year because I can see the difficulty in the courses they play and the shots they execute. Wide open hyzer bombs is boring I had a hard time watching the dgwt because the course looked boring. I think you guys did well in choosing some great venues for your tour the number of rounds won't matter to me.

You thinking of the DGWT at La Mirada or the Memorial? There were plenty of non hyzer shots at La Mirada.
 
There are two issues here for me, and they've been covered. I don't think five rounds is necessary, simply because I can't live disc golf and catching a meaningful relationship with five rounds on a regular basis is impossible. Even Worlds doesn't do this. If you watch what happens on coverage, it moves from card to card, to division to division to keep it interesting. Five rounds of eight or so players, some movement implied, just loses the draw. Three rounds is spectacular, opening, midround still has my interest, and a last, that keeps my interest because it's the final round.

Interesting venues. As Tom Diz pointed out, I can barely make it through the memorial, it is just to boring to stand, and I'm gonna acknowledge that the organizers have done a lot to make it as interesting as they can. Beaver, Maple Hill and other dynamic venues with unique and interesting shots will hold my attention and bring me back round to round. Watching the same relatively open field shot for three or four rounds adds nothing to the experience.

Commentary helps, and some are particularly good at it. Bad commentary makes a by by for me. If I had my druthers, I'd get CCDG with Smashboxx and have them talk about what to do, but there probably isn't revenue for that.
 
You thinking of the DGWT at La Mirada or the Memorial? There were plenty of non hyzer shots at La Mirada.

I was referencing both. La mirada definitely is the better of the two but it just wasn't too fun for me to watch. Too parky, I don't like lots of mandos or lines drawn for ob to make a course difficult.
 

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