Disc Molding & Manufacturing Process

[bcr123psu]

The Aviar history thread sparked my interest as it seems that nobody seems to to know what the molds (or their corresponding pieces/components) even look like. Can anybody out there show a step-by-step video or set of pictures to demonstrate how the disc molding & manufacturing process goes from raw materials to finished product? Pretty much the "How it's Made" for disc golf discs.

I'll get you started with the music: bump bump buh buh bump...

 

[bikinjack]

Here's a Gateway video about the subject. I didn't catch any looks at any of the mold pieces.

 

[bcr123psu]

Thanks for posting that. I had seen it before, but it didn't really show too many of the inner workings other than some burner cutting flashing of a putter

 

[bcr123psu]

Oh, and shouldn't they weight it AFTER they've cut the flashing off?

 

[Clempson13]

this should answer some of your questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding

 

[bcr123psu]

I should have looked there in the first place. I had a CRAPPY job in an injection molding shop when I was in between high school and college, but I didn't pay much attention to the dies :doh:

 

[keepDGobscure]

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Frisbee.html

 

[Dave Walters]

A disc mold is best made in 3 parts. The picture below shows all 3 parts when seperated. Now keep in mind when the mold is being ran the Core (Bottom Cavity) is inside the wing cavity to make the underside profile. So the mold then becomes technically 2 moving pieces.

The mold then closes, plastic shoots in, cools, mold opens, and voila you have a disc.

 

[Dave Walters]

Here's a Gateway video about the subject. I didn't catch any looks at any of the mold pieces.

Oh, and shouldn't they weight it AFTER they've cut the flashing off?

As you see dave is hand mixing their "batch" of plastic which is the one reason for their runs being very inconsistent in softness.

also BCR you have a perfect statement explaining why a lot of gateways marked weights are wrong when you actually scale weigh your purchased disc.






Also another good video of the molding process.
After the :45 mark the rest doesnt matter

 

[jubuttib]

As you see dave is hand mixing their "batch" of plastic which is the one reason for their runs being very inconsistent in softness.

Food for thought:

Sorry about the delay in responding, been away at am worlds and having some non disc golf related summer fun.

I've made several posts in the past that references the labeling of our discs.
To clarify,,,,, the marking is more related to the surface hardness of the polymer as opposed to just flexibility.
All of our "S" putters ( besides the mediums) are likely to become more flexible with use without changing flight characteristics much,,,so an SS that seams like a soft will become a bit more flexible after just a few dozen rounds. Ive played disc golf since it was called frisbee golf ,(started back in the early 70's) and from my 35 plus years of experience its much better to have a disc break into what you want as opposed to becoming something you don't want after a few months. Buying a putter that is perfect out of the box that changes to something more flexible than you prefer is a planned obsolescence that would help a company sell you more discs.
Most people know very little about the plastics industry and expect us to label our discs ( specifically SS) the way Innova would, sorry that we dont label our discs according to how they label theirs. If innova had 4 versions of flex/hardness of their the putt and approach discs, I'm guessing you would see the same type of variation.
The thing is they don't have 4 flexes of p &a and no other company offers 4 PLUS flexes/hardness's in one model, yet alone in 4 different models of putter.

In the plastic world MOST plastics are much firmer than even our mediums would be. Trust me when I tell you that a medium wizards is about a 3 out of 10 on the scale of how hard plastics can actually be produced.

It certainly true that we have variations in runs ( and theres always human error that can factor in),, all companies have variations in runs and will continue to do so for many years to come.

We try our best to be consistent in our labeling but there's always a run or so every once in a while that just falls in between.
These runs will typically get marked more softer as we know they will still become more flexible with use, never the other way around.

There's literally an infinite number of ways to produce a Wizard.
The most obvious is polymer blends, but molding temperature as well as mold surface temperature can play a big part as well for the look and feel of the discs. Each variable of temperature can produce a slightly different look and feel even though the polymer blend may be the same.
The way the part is filled has a lot more to do with how the discs fly which is much more significant in drivers, but can certainly have an effect on the flex. if the polymer blend is a 85 a shore ( which is a ss) and it is packed out really hard the discs will not be as flexible. meaning if a batch is blended and through normal processing it is only weighing 165, it can be packed out more to make it weigh 175 which would make it a lot less flexible than if it were the other way around.
Say the batch was weighing 180 it would need to be shot into the mold differently to get the weight down.
In both of these instances the hardness of the plastic itself would still be 85 A shore and there for SS.

Colors also play a part in flow, surface and hardness,,, if it were up to me all golf discs would be white.


So a simple solution would be to mix every batch the same, but with humans you will always have the chance for error.
Also a batch that is mixed and molded on a 30 degree day and 20% humidity will react quite differently than the EXACT same formulation molded on a 100 degree with 90% humidity.

one solution would be MUCHG larger batches and we are getting there.
we use t o run batches of 200 discs now its closer to 500,,,

The comparison in the run last night was based on the feel and flight ( I'd say they are as just over stable as any we have made in the past).
They are pretty flat and sharper on the nose and the flight plate feels really thin.
The Shop and mold were extremely hot which helped the plastic flow into the rim easily,, meaning we didnt need too much pressure to fill the part. The flight plate winds up being a little thinner this way.
By thinner I'm only talking about a few thousandths at most but certainly enough to make the wing to flight plate ration in a 175 gram putter,,,,, wing heavy. In a run where we have to really pack out the discs ( lighter or colder), the flight plates get a little thicker since the plastic is pushed from the center out to the rim.

Strictly speaking in terms of flex, the discs we make will become more flexible after a few dozen rounds and then remain that way for basically the remainder of its life.
The "zone" that you speak of for a Gateway putter is probably the longest of any non urethane putter on the market.
Again,,,,,The labeling of our discs is much more related to the hardness of the actual polymers used for that run as opposed to just flex.

In hindsight we should probably be using hardness instead of flex with a range of flex within each hardness but it would be difficult trying to keep them all in stock.

And of course this thing.

Bottom line: They tweak the flex and surface hardness constantly, most of the variation might be intentional. Great for people who can feel up the discs before buying, not so great for us that have to rely on ordering online.

 

[jsun3thousand]

vibram does compression molding.

vs.

injection molding

 

[bcr123psu]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. It's been pretty enlightening thus far.